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Author Topic: Best 865PE Overclock for 2.4C to 3.0+  (Read 36041 times)

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Kevin Keenan

  • Guest
Best 865PE Overclock for 2.4C to 3.0+
« on: 19-September-03, 18:06:50 »

IF YOU ARE A NEWBIE PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE ARTICLE BEFORE TRYING TO OVERCLOCK!!!!!!!!

FOR REGULARS and CUSTOM PROs you can just ignore this post.

Well this has already been done, but for new OC'ers who want to reach the same limits as others here I am posting the settings required to run at 3.0C for a 2.4C on ANY MSI 865PE (and dozens of other mainboards) as well.

After setting Optimized/High Performance Defaults go back and make thefollowing changes along with any other changes you need (changing drive settings, boot order, etc.):

MAT/DOT Set to OFF
DRAM FREQUENCY = 333
SPREAD SPECTRUM = OFF
ADJUST CPU CLOCK = 250
AGP/PCI FREQUENCY = 66/33 or whatever is closest to that
CPU VCORE ADJ = YES/ON
CPU VCORE = 1.525 (If unstable add voltage (1.6v safe)
DDR VOLTAGE = 2.65(If unstable add voltage (2.8v safe)
AGP VOLTAGE = 1.5(If unstable add voltage (1.7 safe)

Memory = SPD or Your manufacturer's memory timings
AGP Aperture = 64MB

This has worked for over 100 systems I've made on different mainboards from MSI to ASUS to GIGABYTE.  Hopefully it will help some.

I am not responsible if you fry or cook your board.  I have seen a couple REV 1.0 MSI 865P FIS2R's go up in smoke.  It should be noted that the memory and CPU were salvageable in every case and ran at 3.0 on another board be it MSI or whomever.  I have NEVER killed a P4 CPU with this technique.
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Kevin Keenan

  • Guest
RE:
« Reply #1 on: 19-September-03, 18:10:18 »

By the way this is only preliminary.  After you are able to attain this level you can then stay there and tweak your settings for additional performance!  

Or you can leave, them and go for more OC, and then tweak the box after you've found your max stable and safe FSB.
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Pseudome

  • Guest
(No subject)
« Reply #2 on: 21-September-03, 14:11:51 »

Ah, just what I was looking for.  :D

Although, through a process of trial and error, I've already come to these same EXACT conclusions that you have. What puzzles me, however, is the RAM speed.

I'm OCing a P4 2.6 (800 MHz FSB) to 3.2. I'm using some Kingston DDR RAM rated to DDR 500. Now, technically, my CPU won't go past 3.19 GHz and retain rock solid stability. So, I have to set my FSB to 246. I'm using SPD and all DOT/MAT/PAT garbage is turned off.

Running stress tests with Prime 95, and Sandra result in no errors, even after 48 hours straight. BUT, when I try to run any game based off of the Q3 engine, I'm met with weird graphical anomalies...The symptom is very similar to what would happen if you OC a video card too far (I'm running a GF 4 4400 at stock speeds).

It must have SOMETHING to do with the way the Neo2 communicates with between the AGP bus and main memory. Because if I turn my memory down to 333 (as opposed to 400), the problem goes away. Also, if I set the AGP Aperture to 4 MB, the problem goes away (tho, performance does seem to suffer a bit...and 3D Mark 2003 crashes on me).

I've tried running a search on this topic, but couldn't find anything specific to this issue.

So, given that the CPU is okay, and the RAM isn't even running as fast as it's speced for, why would a problem like this crop up? An engineering issue on MSI's part, or can the 865 chipset just not handle these extreme RAM speeds properly?
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bejon2000

  • Guest
(No subject)
« Reply #3 on: 21-September-03, 14:43:55 »

KK,
I can just confirm your article, a good one that will save
a lot of people time and frustration ( reaching 3.0 stable)
Still, I´m impressed of your sandra HDD marks. Could you give us some general performance-tip and your experience from differant HDD brands, IDE/RAID and so on.

Best regards.....
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Kevin Keenan

  • Guest
RE: Pseudome and Bejon2000
« Reply #4 on: 21-September-03, 15:52:55 »

Pseudome:

Nothing wrong with your setup.  It's likely a thermal throttling issue with the CPU.  The P4's internal overheat thermal diode acts VERY fast, so you can have your chip overheat and not ever feel the heat on the heatsink.  

I'm at that boat now.  My memory is operating in spec, No cpu temp sensors are throwing errors and the only conclusion after I did some testing (you can find the thread here somewhere) is to actually test the cpu temp at the core and not rely on sensors on the mainboard which are likely slow and innacurate.  

I have confirmed this in a recent test that is more accurate.  The old test I dremeled a spot in the heatsink to put the sensor wire.  

Now that I don't have a IHS on my P4 (stripped it off with a scalpel) there's no little square silver heat spreader between the sink and the core.  Now the heatsink just touches the core like on an athlon.  So I can stick the sensor under and directly next to the core without affecting thermal contact to the heatsink.  Idle temps are 22-25C and load temps are 40-45C Max with room temps of 85C.  

Instant jumps in temp are quickly slammed down on hard by the thermal diode.  locks the box up.  Only way to go faster now is to use liquid cooling, chilled cooling with a condenser, or the likes.

Bejon2000:

I have never advocated Sandra's HDD benchmark nor it's accuracy.

I have had a bad drive of EVERY make and model there is.  Working for businesses and for friends and myself and family, I've purchased well over 3000 hard drives in the past 10 years from a Western Digital 200MB EIDE drive to a 100GB SATA maxtor drive, and although it's strictly preference and there's NO DEFINITIVE PROOF I've come to the following conclusion.

I ONLY buy Western Digital IDE drives, and ONLY Seagate SCSI drives.  Here's why:

1.  High reliability (not perfect but highest of any manufacturer)
2.  High performance equal/comparable to any other drive in the same class
3.  3-Year warranty on 8MB Buffer Drives (1 year elsewhere)
4.  Easy RMA (they send you a new drive BEFORE you send yours)
5.  Excellent RAID or single drive performance
6.  Affordable.  Not the cheapest, but certainly worth a little extra

When it comes to Home User drive performance in general, I recommend IDE RAID.  It's cheaper than SATA alternative, offers MORE drive space, and is easily faster than a single SATA drive.  

YES YES SATA RAID would be faster than ATA RAID, but at even more cost.  I would rather RAID two WD1200JB's that are very fast (64-66MB/sec sustained!!!) with a warranty of 3-YR than weather the cost of the two expensive SATA 120GB drives and the 1-YR warranty.  

In addition, In theory, practice, and as shown on many benchmarking sites, it's been shown that SATA performance while faster is not considerably faster than ATA but only marginally.  So why pay more for a little speed with less reliability?

To break EVEN, you'd end up with like a 120GB SATA array when you could for the same price run a 240GB ATA array!!!

And NO MATTER WHAT array you setup, you must tune it right by getting the proper stripe block and cluster size (see other threads on RAID for this) for optimal performance.  I've seen 4 drive stripes run only 5% better than a single drive.  It's all in how you configure it.

Just because you have the best car performance parts doesn't mean you'll be the fastest.  Knowing what to do with them and how you set it up does.
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Trail001

  • Guest
(No subject)
« Reply #5 on: 21-September-03, 19:54:37 »

I have a bad bad thing happened to me..

I bought my board, loaded high speed defaults, set the ULTRA TURBO mode and ran without probs, installed xp, played some unreal, no problems..

Then i installed that core program, wich was boosting my fsb higher and higher untill it crashed at 237mhz..

That prog kept restarting anyway so i decided to set it at 225 wich ran fine according to sisoft sandra..

Then i decided i also didn't like this resident prog like all others and uninstalled it, taking the info i learned to the bios to raise my fsb speed to 225 in there..

I did that and rebooted.. no video.. just hanging.. no recovery (so no dram timings to short, press f1 to setup) i had to open my case and clean the bios forcefully..

It rebooted and i tried high speed bios defaults and saved to reboot.. only to get the same prob.. no video.. to make a long story shorter, the max i can get out of my system is the normal default bios setting with the memory option at the fast setting.. and no other tweaks.. no more turbo or ultra turbo even..

Did i somehow damage anything allready ?
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DeathSectoren

  • Guest
(No subject)
« Reply #6 on: 23-September-03, 19:00:37 »

I want to overclock my P4 2,6ghz 800fsb to 3ghz using stock heatsink and fan.
I wanted to know what DRAM FREQUENCY do i use for 1 dimm of 512 PC3200 (400mhz)

I have the Neo2 865PE LS
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iyongski

  • Guest
(No subject)
« Reply #7 on: 26-September-03, 19:40:23 »

Quote
I want to overclock my P4 2,6ghz 800fsb to 3ghz using stock heatsink and fan. I wanted to know what DRAM FREQUENCY do i use for 1 dimm of 512 PC3200 (400mhz)


First find out which Performance Mode your memory is stable at with stock speeds - SLOW, FAST or TURBO.

Changing:
DRAM Freq = 333 will force a 5:4 FSB:RAM ratio so setting
Adjust CPU Bus Clock = 231 will put the processor at 3GHz but bring
Adjust AGP/PCI Clock = 67/33.5 to keep a safe AGP clock

I have been able to set Adjust CPU Bus Clock at about 260MHz and get 3.38GHz operation reliably on DDR400 without overclocking memory.

HTH
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stefanos9

  • Guest
try this: easy at @3.25GHz !!!
« Reply #8 on: 01-October-03, 02:31:26 »

2.4c @ 3.3GHZ / 1081 FSB
KINGSTON HYPERX DDR433 CAS2

OK. i have the 865PE Neo2 LS.
After a long of reseach, i can say that this mobo rocks!!!, but u must know exactly what u r doing....

I strongly suggest to have BIOS V1.5 !! (I flashed form 1.3, in which there was no
support for Hyperthreading..)

Follow this steps exactly (if u have at least DDR433, if not reduce fsb to match your memory specs)

1. Disable Dynamic Overclocking (DOT)
2. Set DDR frequency to 333MHz to obtain the 5/4 CPU/Memory FSB ratio
3. Set DRAM timings to auto (SPD) if u dont know the correct specs. If u do disable SPD and set them.
4. Note : MAT is automaticaly disabled in 4:5 mode (You can set Performance = Slow, but even in Ultra turbo
    this is the same-not actually wotking)
5. Increase the Vcore from 1.5225 to 1.600 volts (safe up to 1.8)
6. Set CPU FSB=271MHz (this runs the DDR at 433 (216.5 x 2), go lower if your DDR is less than 433)
7. Set AGP/PCI ratio fixed to 68/34. If you go higher u may have problems with
sound and VGA card.
 

Save and ReBoot !!!

Note2:
DOT is crap (It works if u dont overclock at BIOS and the max FSB increase at General level is 10%)
MAT is also crap compared to a CPU FSB of 271 and DDR @ 433. (MAT offers 5% max improvement in memory bandwidth)
which is nothing compared to the above FSBs.

Note3 : NB temp is invalid..ignore it

Go see for your self my benchmarking results at :

http://stefanos9.topcities.com/Downloads.html
(Download pc1 and pc2 ppt)

IF you reach to 5400 in memory bandwidth, then the bottleneck is eliminated. From 5400 and above is the same.
Check memory bandwidth benchmarks, they are above the 875PE with intel's MAT/PAT !!!!  



Stef
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einsteins

  • Guest
(No subject)
« Reply #9 on: 05-October-03, 18:55:39 »

Will these instructions work for the 875P ?
I dont see anything in my bios to turn off DOT. (is DOT in 875P?)
on the 875p will setting to 5/4 also disable the performance settings?

What should I set my FSB to if I am running a 2.8c P4 800fsb instead of a 2.4c

I am running 2x 512meg of Kingston Hyper x ddr400 pc3200 ram.

Is there a post with instructions like this for the 875p?

Thank you in advance
einsteins
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msipcfixer911

  • Guest
me too!?
« Reply #10 on: 06-October-03, 12:19:50 »

I am going to try these settings or ones very close to it.!!:)

MSI 865PE NEO2 FIS2R Bios 1.3
2 X's Crucial 256MB PC3200
ATI All in Wonder Radeon 7500 64 MB
Maxtor 120 GIG S-ATA 8MB cache
Windows XP
MSI CD-R/RW 52-M
3 1/2 floppy drive
Antec Sonata Silent case 380 PSU
Hyperthreading is enabled
Logitech Duo Keyboard/Mouse
USR 56K MODEM
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Danny

  • Guest
(No subject)
« Reply #11 on: 06-October-03, 14:05:04 »

einsteins, if you don't have the DOT options don't worry about it. I was able to achieve a stable 220FSB with generic memory and a borderline power supply. Temperatures were OK as well, so you should be able to start from here. You won't get the same degree of overclocking as the 2.4 and 2.6 cpu's. They all come from the same mold so they pretty much have the same top end.
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msipcfixer911

  • Guest
2.80c
« Reply #12 on: 06-October-03, 18:08:24 »

Just to let Mr. Breeze know I really appreciate the posting of this information

So far so good.
Set CPU clock to 225 (runing 2.80c at 3165 Mhz)
DDR Mhz is at 450
AGP  66/33
cpu core yes
cpu volt  1.525v
ddr volt 2.65v
agp volt 1.60v

this time the passMark is 309.  megaflops 245.

The performance for Disk mark went down from 206 to 119 now
and 3D graphics went down from 318 to 239
both using the Performance Test 4.0 software.
have not run the SiSoftware Sandra yet to compare them too.
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einsteins

  • Guest
(No subject)
« Reply #13 on: 06-October-03, 18:46:31 »

msipcfixer911
What is your ram type and rating that you are running it at 450mhz?

Thankx
einsteins
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phaeton

  • Guest
(No subject)
« Reply #14 on: 06-October-03, 21:45:36 »

Works great for me!

My 2.6 is running at 3 rock solid, haven't tried anything higher, load temps hit 42 degrees, idle 30, so I have a bit of headroom.

DOT = off
FSB = 231
AGP/PCI = Locked 66/33
AGP Aperature = 64
Performance Mode = Turbo
CPU to RAM Ratio = 5:4
DDR = 333mhz

Awesome! I'll try to hit 3.2 tomorrow!
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msipcfixer911

  • Guest
einstiens
« Reply #15 on: 07-October-03, 12:57:37 »

memory is

2 X's Crucial 256MB PC3200 module detail is:CT3272Z40B
set cpu clock at 225, DDR clock 450 Mhz
DRAM Freq 333 AGP 66/33 cpu vcore 1.525v,
ddr volt 2.65v, apg volt 1.60v

seems stable at for a 2.80C to run at 3165!!
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msipcfixer911

  • Guest
cpu temp @ these settings
« Reply #16 on: 08-October-03, 07:59:50 »

Set CPU clock to 225 (runing 2.80c at 3165 Mhz)
DDR Mhz is at 450  DRAM Freq is 333
AGP 66/33
cpu core yes
cpu volt 1.525v
ddr volt 2.65v
agp volt 1.60v

When running SiSoftware Sandra the cpu temp goes up to 60C/65C
for a few minutes then back to stable 45C at idle. system temp is 40C
and NB temp steady at 65C

Is this normal tempertures for a P4 2.80C @ 3150??
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einsteins

  • Guest
(No subject)
« Reply #17 on: 08-October-03, 09:35:15 »

I just tried these settings...
Quote
Set CPU clock to 225 (runing 2.80c at 3165 Mhz)
DDR Mhz is at 450 DRAM Freq is 333
AGP 66/33
cpu core yes
cpu volt 1.525v
ddr volt 2.65v
agp volt 1.60v

but now my sound cuts out ...anyone have any ideas what i should tweak to fix that?
I have tried numrous voltage settings for the ddr voltage and the AGP voltage but no luck with any of them.

thankx
einsteins
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Danny

  • Guest
(No subject)
« Reply #18 on: 08-October-03, 10:09:17 »

Quote
Set CPU clock to 225 (runing 2.80c at 3165 Mhz)
DDR Mhz is at 450 DRAM Freq is 333

I'm a little puzzled. 3165/2800x200 = 226, so the CPU clock set at 225 makes sense as these boards o/c your setting a little bit. If your DRAM frequency was set at 400, a 1:1 clock ratio would be used and the 450 DDR MHz would make sense. Where I am lost is that a DRAM Freq of 333 (which the 865 chip set actually runs at 320) indicates a 5:4 clock ratio, so your DDR Mhz should be lower: 225/200x320 = 360?
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msipcfixer911

  • Guest
(No subject)
« Reply #19 on: 09-October-03, 07:47:56 »

Must be an error in the CoreCenter readings.
I did set the cpu clock at 225  and DDRAM frequency at 333
in the bios.
Core center voltages cpu speed fluctuate somewhat between 3150 and
3165 as do the temperatures depending on the demand on memory
and cpu's...   I guess the only "real time" date can be taken from
the bios not the CoreCenter!!!
What I have learned here is not always absoulute!  Is It??
BTW thanks for all your help.  This is running stable so far.....

MSI 865PE NEO2 FIS2R Bios 1.3
P4 2.80C at 3150
2 X's Crucial 256MB PC3200
ATI All in Wonder Radeon 7500 64 MB
Maxtor 120 GIG S-ATA 8MB cache
Windows XP
MSI CD-R/RW 52-M
3 1/2 floppy drive
Antec Sonata Silent case 380 PSU- 2 120mm fans
Hyperthreading is enabled
Logitech Duo Keyboard/Mouse
USR 56K MODEM
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sleepyman321

  • Guest
I have some video problems too
« Reply #20 on: 10-October-03, 02:13:07 »

Hey Pseudome,
     I have a 2.4C on the Neo2 LS.  Video Card is a G4ti4200 128Meg.  When I first tried overclocking my CPU, I went to 213FSB, and whenever I played Counter Strike, I would get video lags from my video card, not internet lag.

My Bios setup is "fast" with 512 meg of KingMax PC3200 (not overclocked with FSB)

I lowered and increased my FSB, and no matter what I did the video on CS would always lag, but not on any other game like Command and Conquer.

I figured that I had to change my AGP aperture size from 128 to around 32, even lower, to get rid of the weird lag.

My friend said it might be because it's not an 8x AGP card. I tried experimenting with the AGP/PCI bus but that did little to nithing in terms of performance. If I lowered the AGP size in bios, the lag would go away, but performace was slower.

I guess it just proves that sometimes you need the better (or best) of all if not most parts to successfully overclock your computer.

I'm debating whether I should buy another stick of the KingMax to run in dual chanell, or if I should get better memory cuz when I do overclock, I dont know if it's the memory holding me back!!!   :wall:    :O

If any1 has any thoughts, it would be appreciated! ;)
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TonyNZ

  • Guest
info on bios please 865PE - LS
« Reply #21 on: 12-October-03, 23:03:39 »

I tried your settings below

not usre if this is correct
DRAM Speed 400MHz,
CAS Settings 2.5-3-3-7-8burst
CL2.5 RAMs
Voltage to 2.7v.
is there anything else I need to change see my system spec below



Intel P4 2.8ghz 800mhzFSB
MSI 865PE LS Neo2 Bios Vs 1.52
2x Apacer 512mb DDR400 Powerchip (P/N:77.10739.634
Albatron Ti 4800SE 128mb AGP
WD 120gb SE
Sony DRU-510A
Audigy 2 Soundcard
Zalman CNPS7000-AlCu
Thermaltake Xaser3 (blue)case
420w PSU
WinXP Pro - SR-1 + updates
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FlyingSquirrel

  • Guest
Could use the expert's template for 3.0c :_
« Reply #22 on: 16-October-03, 22:51:56 »

Could someone update the template for a 3.0c proc?  I want to check the expert recommendations against my amateur settings.  I'm hitting about the middle-range of benchmark scores and am sure I might be able to get a little more :)

Hardware:
  • NEO 2 FISR2
  • Radeon 9800 Pro 128
  • Corsair XMS
  • "Sufficient" aftermarket cooling applied.
  • W/ Default Settings, 5992 3DMarks (2003) - should expect Mid-6k to 7k range?


Could someone modify this page to show optimal rev. 1.7 options?
  • Dynamic Overclocking:  Private
  • Performance Mode:  Turbo
  • CPU Ratio Selection:  Locked
  • DRAM Frequency:  Auto
  • Spread Spectrum:  Disabled
  • Adjust CPU Bus Clock (Mhz):  200
  • DDR Clock (Mhz):  400
  • Adjust AGP/PCI Clock (Mhz):  66.66/33.33
  • CPU Vcore Adjust:  No
  • CPU VCore:  1.5000V
  • DDR Power Voltage: 2.70V
  • AGP Power Voltage: 1.50V


Thanks in Advance!  Some really good posts here - sure does make up where the online documentation leaves you wondering :)
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mcochris

  • Guest
(No subject)
« Reply #23 on: 17-October-03, 21:32:22 »

I can't adjust the AGP/PCI freq, those options are greyed out on the BIOS screen.  And there's no option to unlock the "CPU ratio selection".  Any ideas?  TIA

Running BIOS 1.7
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Danny

  • Guest
(No subject)
« Reply #24 on: 17-October-03, 21:38:23 »

As long as you are in Slow you can make a change to the AGP/PCI freq even though it is greyed out. Just highlite it and hit the enter key.

You can't unlock the CPU ratio selection. It is locked by Intel to prevent dealers from increasing the ratio and selling the chip at the higher rating.
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FlyingSquirrel

  • Guest
Anxiously looking for 3.0c advice :)
« Reply #25 on: 17-October-03, 21:55:33 »

I'm really hoping someone can post another template that works to bump-up 3.0c processors like the 2.4c post here.

That DOT stuff doesn't get past Sergeant before failing on me, so I'm making the incremental bumps to the CPU Bus Clock, but with disappointing results.  I've gone so far in my insanity as to create an XLS to track my changes and formulas to show me the new ratios w/o having to go into the BIOS.  :(

Ultra-Turbo is a no-boot situation.  I'm REALLY glad the MSI BIOS fails gracefully to allow me to boot back into the setup menu.
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mcochris

  • Guest
(No subject)
« Reply #26 on: 17-October-03, 22:14:14 »

Thanks DOS!

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TonyNZ

  • Guest
Update on Best/correct settings for MSI865PE-LS Bios Vs1.7
« Reply #27 on: 30-October-03, 19:29:51 »

I just update bios to Vs 1.7 on my MSI 865PE-LS MB
I would like the best performance settings to run at optimal speed

I have read this post some interesting input

memory I am using2x Apacer 512mb DDR400 Powerchip (P/N:77.10739.634

Dynamic Overclocking: ?
Performance Mode: ?
CPU Ratio Selection: Locked
DRAM Frequency: ?
Spread Spectrum: Disabled
Adjust CPU Bus Clock (Mhz): ?
DDR Clock (Mhz): ?
Adjust AGP/PCI Clock (Mhz): ?
CPU Vcore Adjust: No
CPU VCore: ?
DDR Power Voltage: ?
AGP Power Voltage:?
---------------------------------
DRAM Size 1024 MBytes
DRAM Frequency ?
FSB:DRAM ?
CAS# Latency ?
RAS# to CAS# ?
RAS# Precharge ?
Cycle Time (TRAS) ?
# of memory modules 2

__________________
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Into Eternity

  • Guest
(No subject)
« Reply #28 on: 30-October-03, 22:58:54 »

Quote
Originally posted by Pseudome
Running stress tests with Prime 95, and Sandra result in no errors, even after 48 hours straight. BUT, when I try to run any game based off of the Q3 engine, I'm met with weird graphical anomalies...The symptom is very similar to what would happen if you OC a video card too far (I'm running a GF 4 4400 at stock speeds).

I'm in the same boat that you're in, and trust me it's an issue with the board and not your other components.  The only resolution is to run the video card with vertical sync enabled thus limiting frames per second.  I notice artifacts if ram is even at 220mhz.  I would love to see this issue resolved, but my only concern is that it's hardware related to the chipset, which can't be fixed.  The mobo says it will support DDR500, but I don't think anyone has tried running a 4:5 ratio.  You should even notice artifacts when D.O.T. is enabled to highest settings.  How ever 250fsb is stable at 5:4, just not 1:1.  It has the looks, just not the muscle.
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Firmament

  • Guest
(No subject)
« Reply #29 on: 30-October-03, 23:55:54 »

Hi guys,

I like this thread, it's finally sorted out what the hell the Performance Mode thing in BIOS means, because up until now, I haven't been able to find anything on it.

Sleepyman, you said you are having problems with CS and nothing else. You might want to check that you are using OpenGL or Software in the Video mode. Don't ask me why, but the DirectX through CS is completley shite and slows the thing down big time. Just a thought really.


The P4 2.4C is an awesome chip, or so I've heard. My first attempts at overclocking with have been most rewarding. I've been able to get the thing comfortably running a 3.6Ghz overclock, with stock cooling, and a 57oC full load temp. I brought it down from there because using the 2:3 (or 3:2, I'm not sure which way around the ratios apply) on the RAM slows it down. So much so that a few of my bench marking things resulted in slower times than my 3.4 overclock. Chances are it could be pushed even further if I really wanted too, but I'm going to wait until I get some Artic Silver and more case fans.

The thing that seems to hold it back the most is the RAM, 'cause if I get a problem, most of the time I can just push a bit more RAM Voltage through and it sorts itself out.

Hoorah for the 2.4C and 865PE Neo2 FSIR2!!

Sisoft Benchs

CPU: Dhrystone ALU 11449 | Whetstone 4500/7942 MFLOPS
CPU MM: Integer 27567 it/s | Float 39910 it/s

Super PI: 2M-> 1min 39sec
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sleepyman321

  • Guest
I;ve got it covered
« Reply #30 on: 26-November-03, 15:05:34 »

Hey, I've updated my old Ti4200 to a Radeon 9700 and I dont get the lags anymore. I've always used OpenGL for CS. I only got the lags when I uped my FSB past 204 on my 2.4C.  I'm going to start a new topic to get some of my questions answered, hopefully. I've got some big ones and some small ones, but All my parts are high quality so I dont know why I still get some problems which shouldnt happen.

Thanks for the suggestion!
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sleepyman321

  • Guest
(No subject)
« Reply #31 on: 13-December-03, 01:30:13 »

Can anyone explain to me how to get a 5:4  or 3:2 ratio and what you multiply to get those numbers? Which of those two is better???  I've been trying to overclock my system ,and I'm not doing that bad, but I want to push my lazy system a bit more.

Caution: My ram won't run at "333" in BIOS, don't know why, but it always hangs and resets itself when I attempt a 5:4 ration following directions found in the overclocking forum. Doing some research, I found out that most people set their ram speeds at 333 to overclock at a 5:4...dont know what to do. :confused2:

My Specs:

P4 2.4 ~>2.8 @1.55v
Corsair TwinX 512x2 PC3700 ~>RAM speeds at 433 @2.75v
Radeon 9700NP @1.5v
Zalman Alu/Copper heatsink fan
Alien-X case with 420watt power supply and 6 case fans

I want to read at least 3gig. I did once, but it was a 1:1 ration, and I've read its not stable or not good or something like that.  Right now at 2.8, its steady with no worries except for a faulty power supply. :-((
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Firmament

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« Reply #32 on: 13-December-03, 04:26:01 »

Sleepyman, if you can get the thing running at 3gig with a 1:1 ratio and you come across no problems, do it! It's best to have your ratios as low as possible, as this means there is more bandwidth going to the RAM, which makes reading and writing to it quicker, which, well... makes everything perform a little quicker.

It comes down to stability and what you do most often with the thing. When I run mine at 3.41 I can use all the standard benchmarking/stress testing tools up the wahzoo, but after I've been playing a game for an hour or so, it tends to fall over. So I knocked it back to 3.265, which is as solid as a rock doing anything. If I get tired of playing games I may put it back to 3.4 or 3.6 to make rendering of images/animations and DivX/XviD encoding nice and fast. This, however, is really beside the point to your question.

Again, if you can get the thing to run stable at 3Ghz with the 1:1 ratio, I would definately do it. You may have to bump up your Vram a little the increase stability and/or your Vcore too.

If the thing isn't starting on the 333Mhz (5:4 ratio), try relaxing the RAM timings. This is the stuff such as CAS# and those things. You need to check what your RAM is rated at, but I reckon it would be around a 2/2.5-4-4-7, since the faster stuff has loser timings. Try relaxing it more (making the numbers bigger), till you get something like 3-4-4-8-4 (the last 4 being the burst length thingy, which is instead of 8).

Of course, that really shouldn't be the problem since those sort of settings only need relaxing when you are overclocking your RAM, and going to the 5:4 ratio is underclocking PC3700 quite significantly.

Also, make sure the Performance mode is set to Slow and the D.O.T feature is disabled, or private, which ever happens to be the lowest, I think you can disable it. There is another feature which needs to be turned off when overclocking, but I can't remember what it's called. I looked it up, thank me, it's the Spread Spectrum, make sure that is off too.

I can't really think of anything else that would be causing the problem, hopefully something here has helped you out.
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mcochris

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What's "Ratio"?
« Reply #33 on: 13-December-03, 07:15:47 »

Quote
Originally posted by sleepyman321
Can anyone explain to me how to get a 5:4  or 3:2 ratio and what you multiply to get those numbers?

Yeah, I'd like to know too  :confused2:   There's some info about it in the NEO Boards Unofficial FAQ, but I'll bet lots of readers would like to know more  :-D).
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iko

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« Reply #34 on: 13-December-03, 07:47:42 »

:biggthumbsup:

Good thread Kevin...These exact same settings are the ones I've used ever since I bugged you with all those hyperthreading questions a few months back  :-P)

I haven't been here for quite some time...How's things?

I tried that version 1.9 BIOS update recently, but after many attempts, I found that I couldn't overclock as high as I can in version 1.3 on my 865 Neo 2.

Strange.

Anyway, cheers... :beerchug:
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iko

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« Reply #35 on: 13-December-03, 15:37:49 »

Actually, I didn't use the above settings.  I managed to tweak my machine to run slightly faster.  :-P)

I've been running with these settings for some time, and I've just finished playing Return To Castle Wolfenstein for 2 hours without any problems, so I assume everything is fine.

Here's my set up.

Chipset: MSI 865 Neo 2 PE
BIOS: v1.3
Memory: 2 x 256MB TwinMOS DDR PC3200
CPU: 2.4 Ghz P4 800 FSB
Hyperthreading: Enabled
Graphics: Creative GeForce 256 DDR (ancient card still going strong with hardly any jerky frames in games  :-D) )

These are the BIOS settings.

Perfomance Mode: Slow
DRAM Frequency: 400 Mhz
Spread Spectrum: Disabled
Adjust CPU Bus Clock: 255
Adjust AGP/PCI Clock: 67.01 / 33.50
CPU VCore Adjust: No
DDR Power Voltage: 2.65v
AGP Power Voltage: 1.50v
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sleepyman321

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« Reply #36 on: 14-December-03, 02:15:37 »

Hey Firmament,

Is it correct to say that the only difference between an 865 and 875 is the PAT (performace accelortation)? Thats the only way I see it, and on top, it only overclock about 10% at its highest settings.

I have my 2.4C running at 3.0 now for about a day. Increased the FSB to 250 leaving my memory speed at "AUTO". I was kind freaked out because prior I had selected "500" from the list which is what my memory would run at a FSB of 250 anyway, but it failed to post and restarted itself...but leaving my memory running at "AUTO" and raising the FSB to 250 never gives me problems...also keeps the ratio at 1:1.... :smile:

When trying to use the recommended 5:4 rations I read from other posts in these forums, my memory latencies are always the manufacturers specs: 3,4,4,8,4.  Read some reviews on my memory that it doesnt like running at anything tighter even at PC3200...I can confirm this myself since I like running tests...but I always leave it at its SPD (most relaxed timings).

I'll try to include as much of my system info below. I'm trying to get above 3.0  ???-) but I'm afraid that it will be impossible using the 1:1 ratio :confused2:...I do have my reservations when underclocking anything, be it a processor or memory, so I do see where underclocking PC3700 to PC2700 can be a bad thing.

My system:

P4 2.4C ~>3.0 @ 1.55v
MSI NEO2 LS  865PE
Corsair TwinX 512x2 PC3700 ~>PC4000 @ 2.75v
Radeon 9700 NP @1.5v 4xAGP
Santa Cruz sound card

Other stuff:

Alien-X case with 420watt power supply(2 fans) and 6 case fans
Zalman Alum/Copper heatink/fan (VERY GOOD)

BIOS:

Version 1.9
MAT is "SLOW"
PAT ranks do not exist for my mobo
Mem Timings: 3,4,4,8,4
AGP aperture=64
AGp/PCI frequency is ~68.xx-34.xx
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sleepyman321

  • Guest
RE: What's "Ratio"?
« Reply #37 on: 14-December-03, 02:25:43 »

I checked out the link, thanks! Unfortunatly like you said, the info there is rather limited. I think they r telling me tha if I run my FSB @ 200 and my RAM at "333" its a 5:4 ration. But no1 in their right mind would run a Pentium C processor at a stock FSB AND underclock their memory...

I want to know how to increase these values to get my 2.4C above 3.0, possibly to 3.2...ALSO, I dont know if processors like to be run at values in between such as 3.1gig, or 2.9 gig....it throws me off  :confused2: and makes me uncomfortable if my processor is not an even number.
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Firmament

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« Reply #38 on: 14-December-03, 08:21:15 »

H'Okay,

I'm going to try and sort some stuff out, but chances are I may fire wide of the mark, but what I say makes plenty of sense to me at least.

With RAM ratios, etc, they are dependent on your Front Side Bus (FSB) speeds. So with the 800Mhz FSB's they tell you that you need at least PC3200 (400Mhz ), this is because of the (I think at least, this is where my theory becomes a little sideways) dual memory setup, allowing you the greater bandwidth. Hence to sticks of 400Mhz RAM take up either channel of the 800Mhz FSB! The numbers add up, hoorah!

When you change you RAM speed, the 333Mhz and so forth, this is changing the amount of data or bandwidth for the memory. So, if you change it to 333MHz and you are running the standard chip without overclocking it, you get a 333 : 800, which doesn't divide evenly, which reduces your memory bandwith, which slows the system down. This speed for the RAM, therefore, is an underclock and underutilisation. Get all that?

The speed of the RAM is for the standard 800MHz FSB, so if you are putting your RAM at 500, then overclocking, you are invoking a negative ratio (something insane like 2:3, which is tons of bandwidth). This mean, of course, that by the time you get to the 250Mhz FSB bit, your RAM is trying to operate at some insane speed, if I had the maths behind me better I'd work it out, but it's something crazy like 600Mhz+. So, AUTO, will set in regards to the current FSB, I reckon. So it does set your RAM at 400Mhz, which turns out to be a ratio of 1:1 at 3Ghz.

So when you push the FSB up, which is what you do to overclock the 2.4C, your pushing more data at the RAM at a faster speed. This is where the ratios come into play, since only the super-dooper fast stuff can handle all the speed of a 1000Mhz FSB, which happens to be 3Ghz at the 1:1 ratio. If you divide that by 2 like we did when it was the standard 800Mhz FSB, we get 500Mhz, which is, as I said, the fast RAM, PC4000 500Mhz DDR.

This is why when you change the ratios you gain more processor speed without the added huge bandwidth to your RAM, which most RAM can't handle. Programs such as CPU-Z and Sandra will give you the information of your RAM speed (which will be half again, i.e. 200MHz frequncey for PC3200. Sandra even tells you how fast your RAM is rated to, well it does for mine at least.

Using this information I have my machine running at 3.265 Ghz with the 5:4 ratio, which is running my RAM at a frequencey of 217.5, which when doubled make 434, 1Mhz over my RAM rated level of 433Mhz. So it's overclocked my RAM by a tiny amount, so much so to be negligable I reckon. Due to the fact that I'm working within my RAM speed, my system is as stable as if it were running the standard 2.4 rate. Which, incidently is underclocking your RAM at a 1:1 ratio if you have anything over the PC3200 mark.

God I do prattle.

I don't know what the difference between the 875 and 865 are, all's I know is that I have a 865PE and it works a treat.

With your RAM you should be able to get a speed of about 3.4Ghz with the 5:4 ratio (if you can set it), without having your RAM overclocked at all, which means it is far more stable.

Look at me go, hope something amongst the piles of nothingness I've written will help you out. Overclocking is fun, rewarding, and relatively easy if my first attempt is anything to go by (this rig!)

Enjoy.
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sleepyman321

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« Reply #39 on: 14-December-03, 22:18:36 »

Hey, thanks for the info. I read your post a few times.  Maybe from what your saying, I need to get slower ram to get the 5:4 ratio? If I leave my PC3700 (233) at a 1:1 ratio, it wil be difficult to get above 3.0gig then? Thats extreme overclocking for my ram although I'm sure my processor won't mind "due to its high overclocking potential".....

My system has been on and stable for 2 days now at 3gig and 1000FSB :-D)


What do you think I should do to get above the 3gig mark? I want to experiment but I have finals coming up and a broken computer is the last thing i need to be thinking about  :fear:

I just want to push it more. God I love overclocking and I'm so crazy I know i'm going to fry something! :rolleyes_anim:

Do u know how to set my machine to work a 5:4 ratio? I've been trying to find out some info on that, but the results are null...I neeeeeed to get at 3.2!!! i must feel the power!!!!!  (i am such a dork) :smile:
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Bobbmar

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Dram Frequency
« Reply #40 on: 15-December-03, 10:03:49 »

Can i not have the DRAM FREQUENCY on 533??
Or not?
My DDR Ram suport it.
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sleepyman321

  • Guest
questionable Bobbmar
« Reply #41 on: 15-December-03, 21:44:40 »

Bobbmar,

From what I see below, your PC3200 runs at 200x2=400. Pushing it to 533 sounds a bit overkill and I don't think any manufacturer can claim their PC3200 to run at PC4200. I'd say raising your front side bus and keeping your memory speed at "auto" in bios should be good enough depending on the type of overclocking you want.

There are some great threads that deal with overclocking....do a search for "overclocking" "neo2 865" or something like that....they will give you more information if you want to overclock your system. I've listed below one EXAMPLE I found on some thread written by a moderator or maybe some1 with a lot of experience.

IN BIOS:
1- Set high performance defaults
2- Set your system to "SLOW"
3- Set your Dram frequency to "333"
4- Set you FSB to 250
5- Spread Spectrum = OFF
6- Fix your agp/pci bus to be closest to 66/33
7- MAX vcore should be 1.6
    MAX mem voltage should be 2.8
    MAX AGP voltage should be 1.7 although anything above 1.5 is not   recommended
8- AGP aperture size = 64


I guess in some cases you would like sheer power and some people get more setting their system to a 5:4 ratio. If you want equal bandwith such as 1:1...increase your FSB and keep your memory frequency on "auto"

Quality of parts matter.  Good airflow and a good power supply too. List some more information and I'm sure someone who knows more than me will be able to help you too.
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Firmament

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« Reply #42 on: 16-December-03, 19:45:48 »

Bobbmar/Sleepyman,

I don't see how you can get your RAM running at 533 with your current setup of 231MHz FSB.

Thing is, you have a 2.6 chip, which (from what I've heard/seen) is harder to overclock than the 2.4, but it still does overclock like a champion anyway.

If you were to follow the instructions that Sleepyman gave you, your resultant CPU clock speed would be 3.25 Ghz, since you have the 2.6 has a multiplyer of 13 as opposed to the 2.4's 12 (2.4: 250 x 12 = 3000 <> 2.6: 250 x 13 = 3250).

Unless you made a typo with your post and you meant to state your RAM was PC4200, then I don't think you are right in saying that your RAM supports 533Mhz, because it doesn't.

I reckon your best bet is to follow Sleepman's instructions and set your RAM at 333Mhz in the BIOS (which is the 5:4 ratio [400:333]). With the FSB set at 250Mhz, you will be at 200Mhz with the 5:4 divider, which means your using the full speed of your RAM (although you could go for more and overclock your RAM by doing so). That should result in a fairly solid overclock and a nice speed of 3.25 isn't to be snorted at! Of course, I'm not sure how stable your CPU will be at that speed, but it always worth a try.

I don't think I'm saying you need to get slower RAM Sleepyman, at least I hope I didn't there. I was just trying to explain my concept of the whole ratios and RAM speed issues in overclocking.

I really have no other ideas that might suggest the reason you can't set your RAM at 333Mhz and get the damn thing to start. The only thing I can think of is that your Mobo is a different type to the one I'm used to (yes, it's mine).

Also with the RAM speeds, you generally need to set the SPD timings for your RAM manually, not leave it to the SPD preset speed, or whatever is there. Just so you can go in, change the values and leave it at that. Of course, you shouldn't need to relax your RAM timings if you are invoking the 5:4 ratio, since it would be underclocking you RAM in a serious way at the 250 FSB mark. Perhaps you could try tightening them up to the manufactures timings. They will be somewhere, I'm sure.

I'm sure for the amount I write I should be far more help. Damn me and my procrastination.
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Bobbmar

  • Guest
Problem whit sound
« Reply #43 on: 26-December-03, 11:50:45 »

Why i not get sound after i done this?
And what must i do.
I WILL HAVE SOUND  :-D)
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Danny

  • Guest
(No subject)
« Reply #44 on: 26-December-03, 11:59:39 »

You need to go to the AGP/PCI clock setting, which will be grayed out, hit enter key and then select setting as close to 66/33 that you find.
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Bobbmar

  • Guest
My seting is
« Reply #45 on: 26-December-03, 12:17:17 »

Dynamic OverClocking Disabled
Preformace mod Slow
Dram Frequency 333 Mhz
Spread Spectum Disabled
CPU Bus Clock 250
AGP/PCI Clock 67.01/33.50
CPU Vcore 1.6
DDR Voltage 2.7
AGP 1.7

And i am not geting Sound
Can some tell me what i must change in the bios?
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compaqdeskpro

  • Guest
Just posting
« Reply #46 on: 28-December-03, 15:43:14 »

Mem seems to be the most anoying problem that everyone has..bought ddr500 ram 2 get that problem out of the way..doing nice @ 254 fsb whit ratin 1:1 no problems even 262 fsb no big problems just need a new psu becouse mine cant give good woltage trying to pusch vcure like 1.7 in load it jumps down 2 1.65 or less not good when trying too get a stabel computer..  :undecided:
But I`m happy whit my litle baby she`s sweet  :biggthumbsup:
Have one quastion any one now any good site where U can get som info on hove to make a wapochill or somthing like that (prodjekt) trying to make a cpu cooler out of a fridge  :-D)
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Danny

  • Guest
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« Reply #47 on: 28-December-03, 16:54:12 »

compaqdeskpro, I don't know of any, but since we're close to a new year, what the heck. Put your computer in the refridgerator and cut a slot in the door seals to run the cable out  :-D) :-D) :-D)
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REILLY875

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« Reply #48 on: 28-December-03, 16:58:26 »
  • Best Answer

  • He-He-He :lol_anim:
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    El Alacran

    • Guest
    (No subject)
    « Reply #49 on: 29-December-03, 14:01:37 »

    Hello,

    Just wanting to add my results to.

    I just bought myself a brand new 2.6C cpu and two sticks of dirt cheap Elixir ram.
    (read my sig)
    After reading the recommendations, I overclocked the stuff.

    This are the results:

    Processor 2.6Ghz @ 3250Mhz
    Cpu fsb 250Mhz (=1000Mhz QDR)
    RAM speed 333Mhz
    Performance mode fast
    Ram timings 2.5-3-3-6-8
    AGP/PCI Clock 67.01/33.50
    CPU core 1.6 Volts (lower voltage = unstable)
    DDR voltage 2.65
    AGP voltage 1.5
     
    Absolutely stable for a few days now, and mem scores in Sandra are 5000+

    This rocks!

    Good luck,
    Arthur.
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