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Author Topic: 32GB RAM upgrade in MSI GE62 2QE Apache  (Read 251 times)

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thenullspace1Topic starter

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32GB RAM upgrade in MSI GE62 2QE Apache
« on: 16-May-18, 01:48:28 »

I have an MSI GE62 2QE Apache.  I have read that the maximum amount of RAM supported is 16GB.  What will happen if I purchase 32GB and install it in the system?
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thenullspace1Topic starter

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« Reply #1 on: 16-May-18, 16:20:14 »

What I mean is:
Will my system register the 32GB?

Isn't the limit of the RAM defined by the OS?

Obviously the Motherboard has a limit, but for such a high-end laptop I would assume it can handle more than only 16GB.

Has anyone tried putting more than 16GB in this laptop?
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david

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« Reply #2 on: 17-May-18, 04:57:12 »

Hi thenullspace1,

It won't work. According to MSI's specs, the GE62 2QE has two memory slots and the maximum each slot can use is 8 GB for a total of 16 GB if both slots are used. The max memory limit is determined by the design of the motherboard. Your CPU and chipset may be able to use more memory but your motherboard is only designed for 16 GB. If you put a larger memory module in one of the slots, it will probably cause your computer to freeze and you may not be able to boot it.

If you need more than 16 GB of memory, the best thing you can do with the GE62 2QE is maximize its solid state storage. Install the largest, fastest SSDs possible. You can even replace the HD with a 2.5-inch SATA SSD and have fully solid state storage. Configure your fastest SSD for use as "virtual memory" for Windows. For example, if you set your Windows virtual memory to 16 GB, your computer will function as if it has 32 GB. It won't be as fast as having a real 32 GB of DRAM, but it will be better than 16 GB.

Kind regards, David
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GT80 2QE Titan SLI-001 • i7-4720HQ • 32 GB DRAM • 2 x GTX 980M in SLI • 16 GB VRAM (8 GB/GPU) • 2 x 512 GB Micron M600 M.2 SSDs in mirrored Recovery array • 2 x 128 Toshiba M.2 SSDs in mirrored RAID-1 • 2 TB Samsung 850 EVO SSD • MiniPro RAID V2 external case w/ 2 x 2 TB Seagate ST2000LM003 HD in RAID-1 for local backup • 40" Philips 4K UHD BDM4065UC monitor • Gigabyte Aivia Osmium external keyboard • Logitech G903 Lightspeed wireless mouse w/ Powerplay charging mousepad • Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit • Adobe Master Collection CS6

thenullspace1Topic starter

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« Reply #3 on: 17-May-18, 17:24:55 »

Wow David, you exactly addressed the specific concern I had! Thank you.

My problem is exactly that I run out of memory when running large programs together (e.g. Camtasia + Visual Studio + MATLAB + VirtualBox).

I have found compatible SATA SSD's, like here: http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/compatible-upgrade-for/MSI-(Micro-Star)/ge62-2qe-apache

But I am wanting to get a faster SSD.  Do you know of a list of M.2 or NVME drives that are compatible with this exact laptop model?
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david

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« Reply #4 on: 17-May-18, 20:55:40 »

... My problem is exactly that I run out of memory when running large programs together (e.g. Camtasia + Visual Studio + MATLAB + VirtualBox).

I have found compatible SATA SSD's, like here: http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/compatible-upgrade-for/MSI-(Micro-Star)/ge62-2qe-apache

But I am wanting to get a faster SSD.  Do you know of a list of M.2 or NVME drives that are compatible with this exact laptop model?

Hi thenullspace1,

According to MSI's storage device document, the GE62 2QE can have up to three M.2 SSDs. However, because of the age of the GE62 2QE, it pre-dates MSI's support for the M.2 PCIe interface. So the super-fast M.2 PCIe NVMe SSDs will not work in your notebook. The only type that will work are the variety with the SATA interface (M.2 SATA SSDs). So the best speed you can achieve is the 6 Gb/s of a SATA-3 (SATA III) interface. But this is still pretty fast.

The M.2 slots in your notebook all require an 2280 size (22 x 80 mm) but the three slots are not keyed the same. Again, according to MSI, two of the M.2 slots in the GE62 2QE require a B key. The third M.2 slot requires an M key. These keys are the notches in the edge connector and the B and M keys don't have any meaning for M.2 SATA SSDs. It's purely a capricious decision by the computer manufacturer as to which connectors to provide for the SATA version. My guess is that MSI was thinking they'd provide some of both so users could fit either variety. Many M.2 SATA SSD manufacturers have also tried to make it easy on users by providing both keys (called a "B+M" key). That would be the safest type to get: a 2280 M.2 SATA SSD with B+M keys. It should fit any of the three M.2 slots inside your notebook. They are easy to recognize because they have two notches in their edge connectors. The Samsung M.2 860 EVO SATA SSD here is one such example. It's available in storage capacities from 250 GB to 2 TB and it has both keys so it would work in any of your M.2 slots.

Now for the "iffy" part: There's no guarantee that your notebook has three M.2 slots. MSI doesn't always include parts that were not needed at the factory. If your notebook requires an M.2 interface card or adapter (some models do) and your notebook shipped from the factory with no M.2 SSD installed, they may have omitted these parts since they weren't needed. Or, if your notebook shipped with just one M.2 SSD from the factory, it may lack the second two slots. So you'll need to open your notebook and inspect it to see what is and isn't there. You'll need to know if it has the M.2 slots you need and if the mounting posts and mounting screws are also present. If not, you'll need to contact MSI Service and try to obtain them.

As for the Crucial link that you provided, it is useless. All it shoes are 2.5-inch HD replacement SSDs. These are not M.2 SSDs. Your notebook has a single 2.5-inch drive bay. Therefore it probably shipped with a single HD. You could replace it with a 2.5-inch SATA SSD like this one and it should be as fast as a single stand-alone M.2 SATA SSD. It's up to you.

Regarding storage capacity, any size on the market should work. The largest M.2 SATA SSD capacity that I've seen is 2 TB. The largest 2.5-inch SATA SSD capacity is 4 TB. If you've got the budget, these should work. But, if you're willing to spend that much, you might consider a newer notebook model with a 64 GB memory limit and support for M.2 PCIe NVMe SSDs.

Lastly, I should probably also mention RAID arrays. Evidently, MSI supports a striped RAID-0 array via the three M.2 SSD slots. You could create a two-drive array (double speed) or a three-drive array (triple speed). However, I try to discourage most users from using striped RAID-0 arrays because of the increased risk of catastrophic data loss. If one drive in the array fails---or even hiccups during a write---you could lose all data on all drives in the array. For most users, the increased risk of data loss just isn't worth the minor benefit in load times for their games. After all, once a game is loaded into memory, the speed of the storage device will have very little effect on the performance---especially if you're using an SSD to begin with.

But you're not loading games. You're talking about how to get more system memory by using an SSD to augment your physical system memory with virtual system memory. A striped RAID-0 array would make the SSD faster, thereby getting it closer to the performance of physical system memory. You'll have to decide if the benefit is worth the risk. And you may decide to use a hybrid approach. Use one stand-alone M.2 SSD as your OS drive. Then combine the final two M.2 SSDs into a striped RAID-0 array for your virtual memory. For example, you could install a large 1 or 2 TB M.2 SSD for the OS drive and you could install all your apps there with lots of room to spare. Then install two 128 GB M.2 SSDs in a striped RAID-0 array to use exclusively for virtual system memory. Then, if you want to go 100% solid state, you could install a 2 or 4 TB 2.5-inch SSD in place of your HD for data storage and internal backups.

In my case, I would never tolerate a striped RAID-0 array because I use my GT80 2QE Titan for work and (1) I cannot afford to lose any files, and (2) I need to be able to keep working if one drive fails. So I use mirrored RAID-1 arrays. I have four M.2 SATA SSDs in my notebook. But MSI has a huge problem here: they do not support mirrored RAID-1 arrays at the hardware level. For an OS drive, a RAID array must exist outside of the OS or it cannot be used as a boot drive. So only a hardware array will work. Fortunately, there was a workaround for the GT80: MSI supports a recovery SSD drive at the hardware level. A recovery drive mirrors the main (master) drive and, if you set its interval to "continuous" it behaves very similarly to a mirrored RAID-1 array as long as the notebook is connected to its AC/DC adapter. Unfortunately, when running on battery, the recovery drive sleeps. But as soon as the AC is reconnected, it quickly updates its mirror in the background while you work.

One of the nice things about the mirrored recovery drive is that MSI's hardware reads it the same as it does a striped RAID-0 array. Even though both the master and recovery SSD have a full copy of each file, the controller simultaneously reads half of each file from each drive, thereby doubling the read speed. So my mirrored recovery array is just as fast at reading as a two-drive striped RAID-0 array. But there's a down side: The write speed is half as fast. Evidently the recovery array has some overhead that a true mirrored RAID-1 array doesn't have and writing files to it takes twice as long as it would to a single stand-alone SSD. But it's still faster than writing to the fastest HD.

I combined my third and fourth M.2 SSDs into a true mirrored RAID-1 array at the software level under Microsoft Windows and there is no speed penalty at all---but also no speed benefit. Their read/write performance is the same as a single stand-alone SSD. So this won't help you with virtual system memory performance.

That's all the information I have to share with arrays on MSI notebooks. Your GE62 2QE may not work exactly the same as mine. But you may have some options to explore if you want to squeeze as much speed as possible out of virtual system memory. If you can live with the slower write speed, a mirrored recovery array would enable you to double your read speed for your virtual memory. And you'll have the added benefit of full protection from a drive failure or write hiccup. On the other hand, if you need the fastest possible speed for both reads and writes, a striped RAID-0 array would offer that---if you can tolerate the risks.

Kind regards, David
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GT80 2QE Titan SLI-001 • i7-4720HQ • 32 GB DRAM • 2 x GTX 980M in SLI • 16 GB VRAM (8 GB/GPU) • 2 x 512 GB Micron M600 M.2 SSDs in mirrored Recovery array • 2 x 128 Toshiba M.2 SSDs in mirrored RAID-1 • 2 TB Samsung 850 EVO SSD • MiniPro RAID V2 external case w/ 2 x 2 TB Seagate ST2000LM003 HD in RAID-1 for local backup • 40" Philips 4K UHD BDM4065UC monitor • Gigabyte Aivia Osmium external keyboard • Logitech G903 Lightspeed wireless mouse w/ Powerplay charging mousepad • Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit • Adobe Master Collection CS6

thenullspace1Topic starter

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« Reply #5 on: 17-May-18, 21:24:34 »

Holy :censored:  dude.  This information is golden!  You are the :censored: !  I'll have to read this in detail when I get home tonight.  Thanks David!
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thenullspace1Topic starter

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« Reply #6 on: 18-May-18, 22:03:42 »

David, your post was amazing.  Do I need to do raid setup to do the virtual memory? Or can I just install that single Samsung 860 EVO 1TB m.2 SATA internal SSD that you recomended and setup virtual memory on it?  I will put my OS's on it with dual boot of Windows and Ubuntu.  And also, you are correct, I do not play video games, so this is for work so I'm not interested in features that are specific to gamers if that is for gamers.
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david

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« Reply #7 on: 18-May-18, 23:19:30 »

... Do I need to do raid setup to do the virtual memory? Or can I just install that single Samsung 860 EVO 1TB m.2 SATA internal SSD that you recomended and setup virtual memory on it?  I will put my OS's on it with dual boot of Windows and Ubuntu.  And also, you are correct, I do not play video games, so this is for work so I'm not interested in features that are specific to gamers if that is for gamers.

Hi thenullspace1,

1 - No, you do not need to use any kind of RAID array to do virtual memory. The reason I mentioned it, is because it would provide a way to make the virtual memory faster and therefore closer to the performance of physical system memory. Use a single stand-alone SSD and see how it works. If the performance is satisfactory, then you don't need to do anything more.

2 - Here's another thing to consider: If you plan to make heavy use of virtual memory, it's never ideal to locate virtual memory on the same drive as your operating system and applications. Why? Because you're asking the storage device to do double or triple duty. It must run Windows and tend to its needs, run your application and tend to its needs, while at the same time using the drive as a virtual memory repository. This will introduce delays where it can't respond to one or two because it's responding to another. Most Windows users set up their virtual memory on the OS drive because this is the default setting for a new Windows install. And most computers lack a separate drive for specialty purposes like virtual memory.

However, if your notebook has another M.2 slot, I'd strongly advise using a separate M.2 SATA SSD for virtual memory since it sounds like your use of it will be substantial. A separate virtual memory SSD will have its own SATA channel and the computer can read/write to it simultaneously as the OS SSD. The virtual memory SSD doesn't need to be big. Normally, I'd recommend a 128 GB capacity or less but these smaller M.2 SSDs aren't don't appear to be that common any more unless you are willing to use a slow one (most that I found have slow write performance). But, if you use a 250 GB or 256 GB capacity, there are plenty of fast ones to choose from. For example a 250 GB Crucial M.2 MX500 costs about US$72 and has a read/write speed of 560/510 MB/s. Or a 250 GB Samsung M.2 860 EVO costs around US$84 and has a read/write speed of 560/530 MB/s. Or a 256 GB Sandisk M.2 X600 costs about US$92 and has a read/write speed of 550/525 MB/s. All three are from major trustworthy manufacturers, appear to have B+M keys (so they'll work with any of your M.2 slots) and are the required 2280 size.

3 - RAID arrays are not a "gaming" feature. They have wide application. I was just using a "gaming" example since all MSI notebook models that begin with a "G" are designed for gaming and that's the focus of these forums. So I try to relate my comments to gaming where possible for the sake of fellow forum members.

Kind regards, David
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GT80 2QE Titan SLI-001 • i7-4720HQ • 32 GB DRAM • 2 x GTX 980M in SLI • 16 GB VRAM (8 GB/GPU) • 2 x 512 GB Micron M600 M.2 SSDs in mirrored Recovery array • 2 x 128 Toshiba M.2 SSDs in mirrored RAID-1 • 2 TB Samsung 850 EVO SSD • MiniPro RAID V2 external case w/ 2 x 2 TB Seagate ST2000LM003 HD in RAID-1 for local backup • 40" Philips 4K UHD BDM4065UC monitor • Gigabyte Aivia Osmium external keyboard • Logitech G903 Lightspeed wireless mouse w/ Powerplay charging mousepad • Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit • Adobe Master Collection CS6

thenullspace1Topic starter

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« Reply #8 on: 20-May-18, 08:18:31 »

David, where are you finding the  MSI's storage device document for the GE62-2QE Apache?
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david

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« Reply #9 on: 20-May-18, 22:22:19 »

See MSI FAQ 1117. You'll see a red "Download" button near the bottom under the Reference section. Click it to download the pdf document. It is not a GE62 2QE document -- it covers all MSI gaming notebooks so MSI updates it on a regular basis.
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GT80 2QE Titan SLI-001 • i7-4720HQ • 32 GB DRAM • 2 x GTX 980M in SLI • 16 GB VRAM (8 GB/GPU) • 2 x 512 GB Micron M600 M.2 SSDs in mirrored Recovery array • 2 x 128 Toshiba M.2 SSDs in mirrored RAID-1 • 2 TB Samsung 850 EVO SSD • MiniPro RAID V2 external case w/ 2 x 2 TB Seagate ST2000LM003 HD in RAID-1 for local backup • 40" Philips 4K UHD BDM4065UC monitor • Gigabyte Aivia Osmium external keyboard • Logitech G903 Lightspeed wireless mouse w/ Powerplay charging mousepad • Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit • Adobe Master Collection CS6
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