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Author Topic: Question about the AGESA 1.0.0.6 update and 4000 mhz memory  (Read 632 times)

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chris_angel89Topic starter

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Supposidly this should add better memory compatibillity and 4000 mhz support.

Now I see basically ALL motherboards at 3200 MHZ or 3466 MHZ max.
Even if they have bios updates which state " AGESA 1.0.0.6 "
Is this because the motherboards have been manufactured but this update came later so the description is not updated?

MSI B350 Tomahawk for example is one of those boards.

Can someone tell me what the case is? or what board so support 4000 mhz memory?
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Nichrome

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« Reply #1 on: 10-August-18, 13:55:59 »

It is still down to the memory controller (inside CPU) whether it can handle 4000MHz memory.
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chris_angel89Topic starter

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« Reply #2 on: 10-August-18, 13:58:10 »

It is still down to the memory controller (inside CPU) whether it can handle 4000MHz memory.

Eh? so it doesn't have anything to do with the motherboard? The motherboard doesnt need the 1.0.0.6 update? Why doesnt the motherboards then state they can possibly support 4000 mhz memory?

Im planning on getting the Ryzen 2400G. It depends on my cpu wether i can get 4000 mhz?
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Nichrome

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« Reply #3 on: 10-August-18, 23:06:45 »

Well, each CPU is different than the other, silicon lottery. You'd have to be quite lucky to get RAM work at 4000MHz. It surely depends a bit on motherboard itself, but as you may have noted, board description shows 3200+ as OC. And note that actual DDR4 native speed is 2133MHz, so going above that is overclock; not guaranteed to work.

Motherboard might need newer AGESA, I have no idea. People normally don't go above 3200MHz as it makes 0.1% of real performance difference.
MSI has some 4000MHz RAM on compatibility list, but seems like those are usually 1x8 and 2x8 GB sticks.

It's always best to OC CPU first, and if it's stable and temps allow then OC RAM.
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chris_angel89Topic starter

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« Reply #4 on: 10-August-18, 23:48:33 »

Well, each CPU is different than the other, silicon lottery. You'd have to be quite lucky to get RAM work at 4000MHz. It surely depends a bit on motherboard itself, but as you may have noted, board description shows 3200+ as OC. And note that actual DDR4 native speed is 2133MHz, so going above that is overclock; not guaranteed to work.

Motherboard might need newer AGESA, I have no idea. People normally don't go above 3200MHz as it makes 0.1% of real performance difference.
MSI has some 4000MHz RAM on compatibility list, but seems like those are usually 1x8 and 2x8 GB sticks.

It's always best to OC CPU first, and if it's stable and temps allow then OC RAM.
Hmm ok so the memory advertised as 3600 or 4000 is kind of a scam. I mean as consumer you kind of think you are buying that guarenteed.

Anyway in this case its more relevant to upgrade my RAM, because I am trying to use the Ryzen 2400G APU to play videogames. And going from 3200 to 4000 could easily gain 8 fps in the 30-60 fps range.
O well guess I just will buy 3466 RAM since its about 17 euro cheaper. almost same price as 3200 etc. And if it can't handle 3466 then there is no harm in having such a stick. I suppose such a ram stick will perform better anyway? (i mean one rated 4000 mhz for example will always outperform a 3200 mhz one, in terms of stabillity etc.?)
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Nichrome

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« Reply #5 on: 11-August-18, 00:52:52 »

Well if you could squeeze that higher frequency, then there is slight improvement over that slower RAM. But if you run both kits at the same frequency, then it doesn't matter if one is rated for 4000MHz and the other for 2400MHz.
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kombajn1985

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« Reply #6 on: 11-August-18, 08:10:26 »

Im planning on getting the Ryzen 2400G. It depends on my cpu wether i can get 4000 mhz?

You can forget about 4000MHz. I have Ryzen 2400G. My ram can do 3600 without a problem on stock voltage, MB (B350M Gaming Pro) have options up to 4000MHz but anything above 3200 (and i mean anything even 3333MHz)  will throw errors during memtest86 and sooner or later will throw blue screen of death in Windows. No matter on what voltage and/or timings I run them. Instead I was able to tighten timings from 16-16-16-16 to 14-15-15-15.
The problem lies in Ryzen memory controller it support 2933MHz max and 3200 is already an OC above official specification.
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kombajn1985

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« Reply #7 on: 11-August-18, 08:19:38 »

Hmm ok so the memory advertised as 3600 or 4000 is kind of a scam. I mean as consumer you kind of think you are buying that guarenteed.

Anyway in this case its more relevant to upgrade my RAM, because I am trying to use the Ryzen 2400G APU to play videogames. And going from 3200 to 4000 could easily gain 8 fps in the 30-60 fps range.
O well guess I just will buy 3466 RAM since its about 17 euro cheaper. almost same price as 3200 etc. And if it can't handle 3466 then there is no harm in having such a stick. I suppose such a ram stick will perform better anyway? (i mean one rated 4000 mhz for example will always outperform a 3200 mhz one, in terms of stabillity etc.?)
"3600 or 4000 is kind of a scam" 
It's to early to tell. At least two more generations of Ryzen CPUs will be released in the future for AM4 platform so its entirely possible that future processors will have better memory controller. Actually I will be surprised if they wont came with higher ram speed support
"Anyway in this case its more relevant to upgrade my RAM, " It's a waste of money IMHO its better to add proper GPU instead of investing in faster ram to squeeze few more FPS. Even RX560 will be two times faster then iGPU in Ryzen 5 2400G. Any way if you want best possible combination for 2400G go for DUAL!!!! 3200-3466MHz CL14 RAM
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chris_angel89Topic starter

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« Reply #8 on: 11-August-18, 12:45:08 »

"3600 or 4000 is kind of a scam"
It's to early to tell. At least two more generations of Ryzen CPUs will be released in the future for AM4 platform so its entirely possible that future processors will have better memory controller. Actually I will be surprised if they wont came with higher ram speed support
"Anyway in this case its more relevant to upgrade my RAM, " It's a waste of money IMHO its better to add proper GPU instead of investing in faster ram to squeeze few more FPS. Even RX560 will be two times faster then iGPU in Ryzen 5 2400G. Any way if you want best possible combination for 2400G go for DUAL!!!! 3200-3466MHz CL14 RAM
Your text is really small btw. A deticated GPU is not an option at this time. The added benefit of the Ryzen APU is a low cost effective way for my nephew to play fortnite right away. It will be his PC. Which he will be able to do at medium settings.
Also with this option he doesnt "waste' money on a relatively weak GPU. And can save money for a proper GPU.

I am going for the F4-3466C16D-8GVK RAM with the B450M PRO-M2 I think...
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chris_angel89Topic starter

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« Reply #9 on: 11-August-18, 12:50:15 »

Well if you could squeeze that higher frequency, then there is slight improvement over that slower RAM. But if you run both kits at the same frequency, then it doesn't matter if one is rated for 4000MHz and the other for 2400MHz.
So let's say I would get 4000 MHZ memory it would have a higher chance to run at 3466 mhz or 3600 mhz then a stick that is made for 3600 mhz specically?
This can be interesting as I could get a 4000 mhz memory stick and then try to run it at 3466 or 3600, and possibly have better compatibillity then just a 3466/3600 stick?

Another question on this motherboard that I am looking to buy now it says for CPU supported list:
https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/B450M-PRO-M2#support-cpu

"2400G -- Result:7B84v20.zip"
Does this mean that the cpu needs a bios update for it to boot into bios and work?
Would be strange since it says Result:7B84v20.zip for ALL supported processors for that motherboard.

I mean how would you update bios if you're CPU isn't even able to boot the Motherboard/OS which you'll use to update the motherboard..
Souds like a chicken egg situation.

Maybe im just reading it wrong. But I would love some clarifcation on this subject.
Thanks
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Nichrome

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« Reply #10 on: 11-August-18, 13:37:11 »

400 series boards from AMD support those CPUs/APUs out of the box. It might be that BIOS update is required for a correct compatibility/support, but should boot just fine.
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buddyw53

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« Reply #11 on: 11-August-18, 17:23:51 »

So let's say I would get 4000 MHZ memory it would have a higher chance to run at 3466 mhz or 3600 mhz then a stick that is made for 3600 mhz specically?
This can be interesting as I could get a 4000 mhz memory stick and then try to run it at 3466 or 3600, and possibly have better compatibillity then just a 3466/3600 stick?
.....
That's exactly what people do: get higher binned memory in order to improve their odds of success a transaction rates somewhat lower.  There is a rarefied few number of people who've managed to successfully tweak a system with memory at 4000MTps and get it to pass stability tests.

You may not know this but 4000 is not a standard memory speed; that is to say, there are no standards that define conditions so that all the various manufactures of components that make up a complete motherboard memory sub-system (CPU, CPU socket, motherboard, DIMM socket, DIMM board, DDR4-RAM chips and whatever else i can't think of) can make and test their parts with confidence that a consumer can cobble together a system with enough margin that they will find it functional at that speed with a minimum of tweaking on their end.  

A DIMM mfr. can say it because they pick among a lot of RAM chips to find the best of the best (binning) then assemble, test and tweak for timings that will pass.  When they get enough, they rate and label them as 4000 and then have a production lot to sell.  The rest are down-specced to lower speeds.  You pay a lot for that much testing an tweaking.
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RemusM

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« Reply #12 on: 12-August-18, 09:36:58 »

You may not know this but 4000 is not a standard memory speed;

A DIMM mfr. can say it because they pick among a lot of RAM chips to find the best of the best (binning) then assemble, test and tweak for timings that will pass.
When they get enough, they rate and label them as 4000 and then have a production lot to sell.
The rest are down-specced to lower speeds.
You pay a lot for that much testing an tweaking.

:biggthumbsup:

As general rule: higher rated speed = better chips quality
At this moment these are the DDR4 chips under production (standard DDR4 speeds):
2133, 2400, 2666, 2933, 3200 and (recently) 3466 MHz.

So at this moment, anything rated over 3200 use overclocked & overvolted DDR4-2933 or 3200 chips.

Also, for tight timings (undertiming) you always need more "juice" (overvolting).

For now, AMD guarantees up to 2666MHz for Ryzen 1XXX and 2933MHz for Ryzen 2XXX.
:beerchug:
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Mainboard: HC85
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note: NO overclocking!

plutomate

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« Reply #13 on: 13-August-18, 09:46:38 »

if i were a AMD user, for memory, i'd just stick to whichever memory that is specially made for AMD such as Trident Z RGB for AMD. 

let's just be honest, if you compare 3200 memory for intel and for amd, you immediately know the memory for amd cost a little bit more than memory for Intel. Have you ever thought why is it like that?

and I haven't noticed there's a memory for AMD that has default XMP frequency @ 4000 :rolleyes_anim:

afaik, samsung b-die memory can easily overclock to 3200 in most of the case, but can't promise any other die would do the same, but it's still not closed to 4000.
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kombajn1985

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« Reply #14 on: 14-August-18, 08:59:13 »

So let's say I would get 4000 MHZ memory it would have a higher chance to run at 3466 mhz or 3600 mhz then a stick that is made for 3600 mhz specically?
This can be interesting as I could get a 4000 mhz memory stick and then try to run it at 3466 or 3600, and possibly have better compatibillity then just a 3466/3600 stick?
"2400G -- Result:7B84v20.zip"
Does this mean that the cpu needs a bios update for it to boot into bios and work?
Would be strange since it says Result:7B84v20.zip for ALL supported processors for that motherboard.
If you get 4000MHz ram then:
A)they are better modules then for example 3600 model - it look like this: they test all of them and find that which one work at 4000 and which are a bit weaker and can only work at slower speeds and brand them accordantly
B) they will be able to run at 4000MHz on some motherboards and some CPUs (manufacturer test them on specific MB+CPU and most probably those where Intel based, most of the time you can find on ram manufacturer site after searching for ram module name on what MB+CPU they work at max speed)
C)at lower speed they should work d at lower timings and that a big benefit so if you can, go for better ram

As for BIOS version that v20 is the only version so far for that MB so no need to worry about updating BIOS
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