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Author Topic: MSI softwares after installing windows 10  (Read 518 times)

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SmartRmaxTopic starter

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MSI softwares after installing windows 10
« on: 09-January-19, 14:15:00 »

Hello, and sorry if my english is not perfect. I will buy a MSI gaming laptop but it is delivered without Windows and I will have to install it. The question I am asking is : for the MSI softwares that manage LEDS or the differents performance modes, if I install them after installing windows, will they work normally and will they able to modify the computer settings as expected?

Thanks for you answers !
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pennknig

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Re: MSI softwares after installing windows 10
« Reply #1 on: 09-January-19, 21:33:55 »

Hello, and sorry if my english is not perfect. I will buy a MSI gaming laptop but it is delivered without Windows and I will have to install it. The question I am asking is : for the MSI softwares that manage LEDS or the differents performance modes, if I install them after installing windows, will they work normally and will they able to modify the computer settings as expected?

Thanks for you answers !
Model number?
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david

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Re: MSI softwares after installing windows 10
« Reply #2 on: 09-January-19, 22:47:09 »

... I will buy a MSI gaming laptop but it is delivered without Windows and I will have to install it. The question I am asking is : for the MSI softwares that manage LEDS or the differents performance modes, if I install them after installing windows, will they work normally and will they able to modify the computer settings as expected? ...

Hi maxenceremyharoche,

Before you purchase a notebook without an OS (operating system), you must make sure that the Windows drivers you need are available from MSI. If they are not, then don't purchase the notebook---rather, choose a notebook model that has drivers. Most new MSI gaming notebook models will only have drivers for Win 10. If you need drivers to support Win 8.1 or Win 7, you'll probably need to purchase an older model with that support.

To learn what drivers are available, go to the MSI Service page here. Enter the MSI gaming notebook model name into the search box at the top of the page and press the Enter key to begin the search. (My model is GT80 2QE and your model name should use a similar format.) A new webpage with links for the notebook model should appear (sometimes closely related models will also be listed). Click on the "Download" link for the model you want. Once the Download webpage for the model appears, click on the "Driver" link, select the desired Windows version and the list of drivers should appear. The "operating system list" will show you which versions of Windows are supported by MSI for the notebook model.

You'll be doing a "clean" install of Windows and I'm assuming you'll be using Win 10. With that in mind, here are the steps to follow:

1 - Before you begin, download all the MSI drivers and utility programs for your notebook model. Do not use drivers and utility programs for a different model. You might want to store them on a USB flash drive so they will be handy when you need them.

2 - Later in Step 6 you'll need to "hide" the MSI drivers after they are installed and you'll need Microsoft's Show or Hide Updates troubleshooter software. Instructions for how to "hide" Windows drivers from the Win 10 updater are available here on the ZDNet website and there's a link on that page to download the Show or Hide Updates program. Download it and store it on the USB flash drive also. Why is this step necessary? Answer: Because the Win 10 updater cannot be turned off and, if it sees a newer version of a driver is available, it will update the driver. The problem is that the MSI drivers had to be configured for the unique hardware implementation in the notebook and the Win 10 updater will replace the MSI versions with newer generic versions. These newer drivers will not have been configured for the hardware in your notebook and will sometimes "break" features---including important features. By "hiding" them, the Win 10 updater will leave them alone.

3 - Install Win 10. After Win 10 is installed and authenticated, disconnect your notebook from the internet so the Win 10 update cannot run.

4 - Install the MSI drivers in the correct sequence. Important: The driver downloads are not listed in the installation sequence on the MSI Download page. For the correct sequence, see my post here.

5 - After the MSI drivers are installed, install the MSI utility programs beginning with the SCM (System Control Manager). The SCM should always be installed before the other utilities and it should never be omitted.

6 - Using the instructions from the ZDNet website (see link at Step 2), "hide" the MSI drivers that you installed in Step 4 so that the Win 10 updater will no longer "see" them.

7 - After you've safely hidden the MSI drivers, you can reconnect the notebook to the internet and allow it to install Win 10 updates.

That's the overview of the process. In the future, there are a few MSI drivers that you can replace with newer non-MSI versions. A popular example is the NVidia video driver (most users use NVidia's GeForce Experience program to update the video driver because it automates the process---recommended). Another example is the SteelSeries Engine (if your notebook model uses it for its keyboard). In both these example, I always go direct to the manufacturer for updates and do not rely on the Win 10 updater. As for most of the other MSI drivers, they should not be replaced with generics.

Kind regards, David
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SmartRmaxTopic starter

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Re: MSI softwares after installing windows 10
« Reply #3 on: 10-January-19, 08:29:19 »

Thanks a lot for your answers! The model I've choosed is the GE73 8RF-455XFR Raider RGB, and I watched on the website and the good drivers seems to be available for this one, so I will follow your guide when I will receive it!

Thank you!
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ozmidov

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Re: MSI softwares after installing windows 10
« Reply #4 on: 11-January-19, 05:57:59 »

Hello.

Just read this post and need advise.

I just purchased 6 month old "gp62mvr 7rf-284ne". And unfortunately made mistake not to reset PC, bud did full clean install.

Then after the reinstall I've read this post. I did not follow you advice on the sequence of installing the needed drivers. BUT Everything runs smoothly.

My question is quite simple, should I do a new clean install the correct way or just leave it like this?

Please advise.
Thank you.
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noobone

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Re: MSI softwares after installing windows 10
« Reply #5 on: 11-January-19, 08:10:21 »

Hello David,

Thanks for the instruction, but i still have some problem. i bought gl63 8rd last week and install a clean win 10 64 bit. then i download the driver from msi website (https://kr.msi.com/Laptop/support/GL63-8RD.html). but some drivers still cannot be installed even after i follow your instruction. some drivers that cannot be installed such as :
1. Intell rapid storage technologgy (problem : need framework 4.6. i attach the picture)
2. intell VGA driver (problem : the driver does not support the processor)
3. Nvidia driver (problem : nvidia does not compatible)
4. Realtek audio fail (problem: error; -0001)

any advice to solve the problem? thank you for your attention.

Best Regard
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david

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Re: MSI softwares after installing windows 10
« Reply #6 on: 11-January-19, 09:30:18 »

... Thanks for the instruction, but i still have some problem. i bought gl63 8rd last week and install a clean win 10 64 bit. then i download the driver from msi website (https://kr.msi.com/Laptop/support/GL63-8RD.html). but some drivers still cannot be installed even after i follow your instruction. some drivers that cannot be installed such as :
1. Intell rapid storage technologgy (problem : need framework 4.6. i attach the picture)
2. intell VGA driver (problem : the driver does not support the processor)
3. Nvidia driver (problem : nvidia does not compatible)
4. Realtek audio fail (problem: error; -0001)

any advice to solve the problem? thank you for your attention. ...

Hi noobone,

I'm sorry, but I cannot offer much in the way of troubleshooting help. You should contact MSI Support for help. It could be that one or more of their driver downloads may be defective, or they accidentally posted a driver for the wrong notebook model (it must be a gigantic mess to try to keep the different driver configurations matched with the appropriate models). But I would not continue past a driver failure. For example, if the Intel RST won't install, then I would stop there until I was able to overcome that problem. I wouldn't proceed with any of the subsequent drivers. Why? Answer: Because some of them are dependent on drivers that are earlier in the sequence. This is why, a failure of one of the early drivers to install can have negative effects on subsequent drivers, causing them to fail as well.

Remember, these forums are only hosted by MSI---MSI does not participate in them. All forum members are just users like you and me. You'll have to contact MSI Support directly.

Kind regards, David
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pennknig

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Re: MSI softwares after installing windows 10
« Reply #7 on: 11-January-19, 21:08:24 »

1. Intell rapid storage technologgy (problem : need framework 4.6.1 i attach the picture)
2. intell VGA driver (problem : the driver does not support the processor)
3. Nvidia driver (problem : nvidia does not compatible)
4. Realtek audio fail (problem: error; -0001)

DL all your drivers and firmware to a USB stick.
Clean install W10, let W10 do its updates, then do it again, and again until no updates are available.
Update MSI in this order:
1. Chipset
2. nVidia VGA,
3. Audio,
4. LAN,
5. Card Reader
6. WLAN,
7. BT,
8. Touchpad,
9. ME
10. Radio Switch,
11. Others
DO YOUR BIOS THEN YOUR EC FIRMWARE

Your issues are commonplace, some by the order you installed and some by Windows itself.
1 - IRST is only needed if you have RAID mode. If you have ACHI you only need the SSD's driver, see the manufactures website.
3 - Nvidia .... See here: https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=313842.0

This guide is for the GT75, use it as a reference to installing in the proper order.
Bios and EC update guide is there as well.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/msi-gt75-titan-drivers-8th-gen.800622/
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noobone

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Re: MSI softwares after installing windows 10
« Reply #8 on: 12-January-19, 06:06:11 »

Hello David and pennknig,

Thank you for your kindness, i really appreciate it.
almost same method with pennknig said, i solved the problem by update the window. but instead update after install clean win 10, i downloaded the most update ISO file for windows 10 here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10 . then i made new boot on my usb disk and install a clean win 10. after that i install the driver by using David order list and all work well.

But i still have question;
1. when i try to "hide" the msi driver program by using "showhide" program from microsoft and follow the instruction of that program, i didnt find any msi driver to hide on the list. only intel program that i found (i dont think i need to hide intel program, so i didnt hide it). Will it be problem in the future? at this moment nothing happen and work well.

2. do i need to update the bios and firmware? at this moment there is no bug or problem in my laptop.

Thank you for your explanation, it really help noob like me

Best Regard
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pennknig

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Re: MSI softwares after installing windows 10
« Reply #9 on: 12-January-19, 15:10:37 »

2. do i need to update the bios and firmware? at this moment there is no bug or problem in my laptop.
W10 1809 ... Most probably Yes, do the EC then the Bios.
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david

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Re: MSI softwares after installing windows 10
« Reply #10 on: 12-January-19, 19:27:58 »

... 2. do i need to update the bios and firmware? at this moment there is no bug or problem in my laptop. ...

Hi noobone,

No, you should not need to update the BIOS or EC firmware. Remember that these forums are volunteer user-to-user forums and MSI does not participate here. As a result, there's lots of misinformation and we all make mistakes. MSI Support tells users NOT to update the BIOS or EC firmware unless they (MSI Support) tell you to. I'm sure that pennknig means well but her/his advice is incorrect. Here's why:

It's easy to brick your notebook when you attempt to update the BIOS or EC firmware because of the added complexity with MSI gaming notebooks. When you update the BIOS to the latest version, you must first check to see if you are skipping any intervening updates because BIOS updates are usually incremental and are predicated on the notebook already having the previous version. So, you may need to install a series of BIOS updates in order to reach the latest version. Next, the BIOS and EC firmware must be compatible. An update to one may require an update of the other as well and they must be updated in the correct order. Next, the EC settings must be reset each time immediately after the BIOS or EC firmware are updated or the notebook may go into a boot loop or malfunction.

But that's not all. MSI's SCM (System Control Manager) software must also be compatible with the BIOS and EC firmware, so and update of the BIOS of EC firmware may also require the SCM to be updated. And, since the EC has dependents (like the MSI Dragon Center), they must be uninstalled before the SCM is updated, then compatible dependent versions must be reinstalled afterward.

The bottom line here is that a BIOS and/or EC firmware update may not be a trivial matter and it's best to consult MSI Support first and get directions from them. Then follow their directions to the letter. The best advice is: If it ain't broken, don't "fix" it.

Kind regards, David
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pennknig

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Re: MSI softwares after installing windows 10
« Reply #11 on: 12-January-19, 22:58:15 »

Go to the Notebook Review Forum and ask in the MSI forum.
They have MSI dealers and technicians that post there.
At least 2 different brick and mortar/online sellers that can give you support.
Far better technical support that the fear mongering that goes on around here.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/forums/msi.1015/
Use your own judgment.
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noobone

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Re: MSI softwares after installing windows 10
« Reply #12 on: 13-January-19, 05:20:20 »

Hi David and pennknig,

Thank you for your response and help, i really appreciate it. I think i will not update BIOS and EC now since i am so busy atm. maybe later i will look and searching more to figure out what the best thing to do when i am free.

Best Regard
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pennknig

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Re: MSI softwares after installing windows 10
« Reply #13 on: 13-January-19, 17:26:33 »

BIOS and EC now since i am so busy atm.
i will look and searching more to figure out what the best thing to do when i am free.
I spent weeks, pretty much 2 months, and countless hours chasing 1 bug in my system.
It was the obscure AUDIODG.EXE crash, it was being reported up to 12 times a day sometimes.
I was over at Microsoft Technet, Ten Forum, Notebook Review Forum ....
Audio crash was when the notebook went to sleep, as it was being reported.
I updated my BIOS and the error report went away .......
So there you have it, beat your head against a wall for 8 weeks or do 1 update.
I'm doin updates from now on.
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david

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Re: MSI softwares after installing windows 10
« Reply #14 on: 13-January-19, 21:23:46 »

I spent weeks, pretty much 2 months, and countless hours chasing 1 bug in my system.
It was the obscure AUDIODG.EXE crash, it was being reported up to 12 times a day sometimes.
I was over at Microsoft Technet, Ten Forum, Notebook Review Forum ....
Audio crash was when the notebook went to sleep, as it was being reported.
I updated my BIOS and the error report went away .......
So there you have it, beat your head against a wall for 8 weeks or do 1 update.
I'm doin updates from now on.

Hi pennknig,

Respectfully, the difference between your situation and noobone is that you had a problem and noobone does not. If no problem exists, or the problem has been fixed, there is no further need to update the BIOS or EC firmware in the future according to MSI Support. That's not my opinion. It's what MSI Support says to end users and they have good reasons for it---it can be more complicated than most users realize. That's not fear mongering.

Regarding the Intel IRST, it is not just required for hardware-level RAID arrays (software-level RAID arrays for data drives can be created within Windows without the IRST) but the Intel IRST is also required for hardware-level recovery arrays. Before saying the Intel IRST is not needed, it is important to find out what the user is planning to do. Any recovery array that will be used as a boot device must be supported at the hardware level before Windows boots.

-----------

@noobone -- If you're an advanced user like pennknig, then do what you want. However, if you're not, then extra caution is appropriate as MSI Support says.

One more thing I forgot to mention in my earlier post: Since MSI does not document its BIOS updates with complete change logs, you may occasionally have an unwanted surprise if you update. One of the worst that I'm aware of involves audio. Originally, MSI partnered with Creative Labs and included their Sound Blaster (SB) Cinema software with their gaming notebooks. The copy protection system in SB Cinema requires BIOS support (my guess is Creative requires an encrypted key to authenticate that the computer is licensed to use SB Cinema). MSI decided to replace SB Cinema with A-Volute's Nahimic software. When they made the switch, they removed the BIOS support for SB Cinema. Users who, like pennknig, update their BIOS whenever a new version becomes available were horrified when SB Cinema no longer worked. It prompted many angry posts in these forums. MSI was not helpful and told them to switch to Nahimic. Some tried, but they didn't like Nahimic (many users still prefer SB Cinema over Nahimic). A few users who had copies of their older BIOS were able to downgrade to overcome the problem.

But MSI never warned users about the audio change. And this is a consistent problem with MSI---they do not document their BIOS and EC firmware changes very well and there has been no indication that they have changed their attitude. It's awful. My experience with PCs goes back to the 1982 and I've been a Windows software developer since Windows 3. So I've worked with quite a few PC manufacturers and most of them are much better---they provide the information users need to decide if a BIOS update will fix anything a user needs to be fixed---or if the BIOS update is even relevant. It's a shocker to me and I don't get it. The gamer community includes some very tech-savvy users. You'd expect a company focused on gaming like MSI to provide more information---not less.

Kind regards, David
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pennknig

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Re: MSI softwares after installing windows 10
« Reply #15 on: 13-January-19, 21:27:17 »

Hi pennknig,

Respectfully,  .....  David
WOW ... Another "Elaborate" answer.
I don't read what you post, I don't have time for Novels.
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freeyh

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Re: MSI softwares after installing windows 10
« Reply #16 on: 13-January-19, 23:50:47 »

DL all your drivers and firmware to a USB stick.
Clean install W10, let W10 do its updates, then do it again, and again until no updates are available.
Update MSI in this order:
1. Chipset
2. nVidia VGA,
3. Audio,
4. LAN,
5. Card Reader
6. WLAN,
7. BT,
8. Touchpad,
9. ME
10. Radio Switch,
11. Others
DO YOUR BIOS THEN YOUR EC FIRMWARE

Your issues are commonplace, some by the order you installed and some by Windows itself.
1 - IRST is only needed if you have RAID mode. If you have ACHI you only need the SSD's driver, see the manufactures website.
3 - Nvidia .... See here: https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=313842.0

This guide is for the GT75, use it as a reference to installing in the proper order.
Bios and EC update guide is there as well.
http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/msi-gt75-titan-drivers-8th-gen.800622/
How can you guarantee that the correct steps for updating are drivers first then BIOS and EC?
Do not provide the wrong information if you only get the information from another forum.

If the laptop didn't encounter any issues relative to BIOS and EC, there's no need to update BIOS and EC.
What's more, there is no order between install drivers.
If that's your own personal experience, that's fine, but you just see the post from the notebookreview then copy and paste here. That doesn't make any sense.
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david

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Re: MSI softwares after installing windows 10
« Reply #17 on: 14-January-19, 12:20:23 »

... What's more, there is no order between install drivers. ...

Hi free103486,

According to MSI, there is a preferred driver installation sequence. MSI used to post the installation sequence at the top of the driver download page for each of their gaming notebook models. In some cases, the reason is dependency---some drivers are dependent on others. In some cases it has to do with the way the hardware is implemented (GT-series notebooks that support dual dGPUs in SLI require a specific order for video driver installation as well as the SCM software because the GPU selection---iGPU vs dual dGPUs---is made with a hardware control).

Some of the misinformation problems of today began about a year ago when MSI updated its website---the driver installation sequences are missing from their current website. None of the driver download pages have the information any more. I posted a topic about it here and listed MSI's original driver installation sequence for my GT80 2QE Titan so users could use it as an example. The list I posted came direct from MSI.

But MSI has always had a problem with its utility software. They've never posted an installation sequence for it and there is a very clear sequence needed for its SCM. In most cases the SCM (System Control Manager) software must be installed first. Why? Because some of the other utilities need it to be running before they are installed. This includes the Dragon Center (and former Dragon Gaming Center). It also includes MSI's Silent Option software for older notebook models.

And there are some dependencies between drivers and software. For example, the Realtek HD audio driver must be installed before the Nahimic software or the sound system won't function properly. And, if you ever update the audio driver, you need to first uninstall Nahimic. Then reinstall a compatible version of Nahimic after the updated audio driver is back up and running. MSI used to package the Realtek HD audio driver and Nahimic software into a single download on the driver page to prevent users from getting it wrong. But Nahimic users are now being directed to Microsoft or A-Volute (the maker of Nahimic) for updates which could introduce problems since many users don't understand what driver/software dependencies are or how to deal with them.

This is why I've been so vocal in these forums about these issues. MSI needs to do a much better job of communicating with its customers. MSI needs to provide much better information. And yet MSI seems to be heading in the opposite direction of less information.

Kind regards, David
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