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Author Topic: GT75 Titan SSD upgrade - keeps booting OLD drive unless it is removed.  (Read 271 times)

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glengarycamTopic starter

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I found out that my new GT75 has
ONE  - SATA hard drive slot
FOUR- SSD chip drive slots

The laptop came with a 512GB SSD boot drive. I bought a faster 2TB drive to replace it. 
Migrating the old drive to the new drive was easy with Samsung's free migration software. 
After migrating, I shut down the computer, removed the old SSD chip, and rebooted.
Everything was perfect.
But then.. what to do with the old SSD drive?  When I put it back in, the computer booted from the OLD drive again. 
I pressed DELETE while booting and changed the bios boot order to boot my new drive, but it still boots from the OLD drive. 
I pressed F11 while booting to select which drive to boot from.. selected the new drive, but it still booted from the OLD drive. 

I have run out of ideas on how to get that OLD drive to stop booting and let the NEW drive boot.
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glengarycamTopic starter

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Nevermind… I got it to work... but not the way MSI, nor Samsung nor, nor Microsoft, nor anybody else said it was done.  

It annoys me that they ship laptops with the boot drive with operating system installed onto a SLOW drive.
I would bet money that over 99% of people have a slow boot drive.

I blame Microsoft Windows mostly.. although MSI and Samsung should be aware of the problem and how to fix it.  

The basic problem is that the BIOS on MSI's hardware is ignored, and Windows 10 is too stupid to figure out which drive is the boot drive.
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pennknig

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I found out that my new GT75 has
ONE  - SATA hard drive slot
FOUR- SSD chip drive slots

The laptop came with a 512GB SSD boot drive. I bought a faster 2TB drive to replace it.
Migrating the old drive to the new drive was easy with Samsung's free migration software.
After migrating, I shut down the computer, removed the old SSD chip, and rebooted.
Everything was perfect.
But then.. what to do with the old SSD drive?  When I put it back in, the computer booted from the OLD drive again.
I pressed DELETE while booting and changed the bios boot order to boot my new drive, but it still boots from the OLD drive.
I pressed F11 while booting to select which drive to boot from.. selected the new drive, but it still booted from the OLD drive.

I have run out of ideas on how to get that OLD drive to stop booting and let the NEW drive boot.
Seriously?! ... The OS was on the HDD?
My GT75 had the OS on the SSD and a HDD for storage.
The MBR installed onto the HDD when I did a clean install on the SSD.
I redid the clean install, but removed the HDD and the MBR installed on the SSD.
Kinda FU how the MBR will migrate to the HDD when doing a clean install with 2 or ,more drives attached to the MoBo.
They must have all been high on mushrooms the day they created the install program .... Made sense to them at least.
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glengarycamTopic starter

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No, my OS was on the SSD that came with the computer.  I went for a 512GB SSD drive because the price difference between the 512GB and 2TB SSD was excessive.
I bought my OWN 2TB SSD 970Evo Plus - which is the fastest there is.. but the problem was replacing the existing SSD with the 2TB superfast SSD and get the fast one to be the boot drive.

I know that just about every computer person on the planet solves every problem by doing a "clean install" which I consider to be the equivalent to having a lobotomy.  
I think Mr. Gates has enough money without me going and purchasing my own copy of Windows 10.  
A clean install would also wipe out all the ASUS utilities that came with the computer.  
Also, I already began installing software by the time I got my superfast 2TB SSD.

It was a massive pain in the ass, and I defy anybody to find documentation anywhere that tells you how to do it.
Migrating drives is pretty easy.  Even getting the new drive to be the boot drive is easy.  But getting the boot drive to be the FAST drive AND still use the old drive as storage is a nightmare.  If that old 512GB drive was attached, it was determined to be the boot drive no matter what I told the BIOS to do with the boot order.. and no matter what I selected with F11.  

To complete my being a computer whore.. in addition to the 128GB of RAM, And a 2TB SATA drive.. I'm filling all 4 SSD slots with 2TB superfast SSD chips... for a total of 10TB.
The only upgrade I did not do is to get the fastest CPU.  I did that for 2 reasons.  There are two generation 9 CPUS available for this laptop.. the i7 and i9.  the i7 is 77% the speed of the i9.. which is not a massive differerence in speed to justify the $1000 price difference between the two.  Also, from a LOT of experience, I know that if you put the fastest possible CPU on a board, you are likely to have heat problems.  I used to go nuts buying super expensive, massive CPU coolers the size of a small toaster for my desktop CPUs.. and if the cpu was manufactured by AMD instead of Intel - forget it!  AMD CPUs run EXTREMELY hot.  Not only that, you need special - not the normal - cpu compound to transfer the heat.. and you have to clamp the heat sink of the cooling unit onto the board so tight, that it is at the brink of breaking the board and cpu.   One thing people don't realize is that quite often... a slower CPU and a faster CPU are the exact same CPU.. only the faster one is set to run faster.. essentially overclocking it.  AMD cpus run so hot because they are able to be "overclocked" by the manufacturer - resulting in extremely high heat, without destroying the CPU if you have a cooling system that sounds like a vacuum cleaner and is the size of a small toaster.
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pennknig

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1) I bought my OWN 2TB SSD 970Evo Plus - which is the fastest there is.. 

2) I know that just about every computer person on the planet solves every problem by doing a "clean install" which I consider to be the equivalent to having a lobotomy.  
I think Mr. Gates has enough money without me going and purchasing my own copy of Windows 10.  

3) A clean install would also wipe out all the ASUS utilities that came with the computer.  

4) It was a massive pain in the ass, and I defy anybody to find documentation anywhere that tells you how to do it.

5) getting the boot drive to be the FAST drive AND still use the old drive as storage is a nightmare.  If that old 512GB drive was attached, it was determined to be the boot drive no matter what I told the BIOS to do with the boot order.. and no matter what I selected with F11.  

6) The only upgrade I did not do is to get the fastest CPU.  I know that if you put the fastest possible CPU on a board, you are likely to have heat problems.  I used to go nuts buying super expensive, massive CPU coolers the size of a small toaster for my desktop CPUs.. \

1) PRO is faster, but only by benchmark, your user experience will never know the difference from the Evo, Evo Plus, Evo Pro, unless you are a benchmark geek and just want bragging rights and show off whos D**K is bigger.

2) W10 download is free, for any version.

3) A clean install gets rid of all the bloatware and trial offers that are bundled into the operating system ..... You bought an ASUS? This is an MSI Forum.

4) 

5) MBR was directing the boot, you needed to get into the device manager/storage and delete the MBR from the HDD.

6) The GT75 handels the i9's heat with no problems, and this is not a desktop, which makes this notebook very impressive indeed.

Do you realise that the PLUS was probably the wrong drive for the OS? The Plus has really great, fast 4K writes, and that's especially good for transfer of long files/folders such as movies/videos/music.
For an OS, you really want fast Random Writes (Not long 4K's) as its updating different files and programs, and the EVO (Not Plus or Pro) is the best for this feature. The stock Samsung I had (You most probably as well) is a dumbed down firmware version of the EVO, its not recognised by SM software, but windows will do Trim on it as scheduled. It has particularly fast Random Writes, and this is what you want for updating the OS and programs, MSI chose well for this drive.

What I did with my GT75:
C - 250GB NVMe, OS only, no files, folders, games, just OS.
D - 1TB NVMe, Storage ... my stufffff.
E - 1TB NVMe, Games
F - 500GB 2.5" SATA SSD, Backup.
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glengarycamTopic starter

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I did a little research..
Of the same capacity SSDs made by Samsung.. it seems that:
EVO - the baseline
EVO Plus and EVO Pro are considerably faster than EVO
Pro is slightly faster than Plus.. not significantly
The cost of the Pro SSD is insanely high.. only the government has money like that to waste (I said pi*s away but that got censored)
Pro lasts twice as long as Plus before failure.  Buy four Plus SSDs and replace them twice as often.. you are still saving a pile of money.

My preliminary conclusions...
For FAST systems - get Plus or Pro
For cutting costs use standard EVO
Pro costs way too much, and good luck finding anybody selling them.
Since the warranty lasts 10 years, I would not worry about the SSD failing.. who uses the same laptop for 10 years?  

IMPORTANT!!!!
The Achilles heel of SSD drives is their durability.  They have a relatively finite number of reads/writes before failure.
Therefore.. do NOT defragment them!!!  I used to work with a guy who would completely defragment his hard drives EVERY DAY!
He also had hard drive crashes.. gee I wonder why?  I forget the type of drives he was defragmenting.  If he pulled that stunt with
SSD drives, he would be screwing himself royally.  
Also, since an SSD drive has no moving / mechanical parts, it doesn't make any sense to defragment them.  In fact, being fragmented
lengthens their life, because all parts of the drive get used equally instead of hammering away at the same areas day after day.

ANCIENT HISTORY of hard drives
Way back in the stone age - about 30 years ago - hard drives had extremely small capacities and cost a fortune.
I remember paying $1000 for a 1GB hard drive.  Not TB.. GB..
Anyway.. back in those days, hard drives would make noises like a bucket of bolts tumbling around, with squeals.  One brand was even
called "Daeyung" (Die Young) and indeed they DID!
If a drive got too hot it would crash, if it wasn't used often enough it would crash, If the computer was moved while the hard drive was on
it would crash.  If you had a boot drive of one manufacturer mixed with a slave of another manufacturer, they would destroy each other
(Conner vs Seagate.. they did NOT get along).
Worst of all.. hard drives used to develop a considerable number of defects that would grow every day.
They still do, though not as much.. and now when an unreliable cluster is detected, it is marked as bad, and an unused portion of the
drive is remapped to take it's place (until no more unused areas are left).
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glengarycamTopic starter

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I saw your listing of your configuration which is:
C - 250GB NVMe, OS only, no files, folders, games, just OS.
D - 1TB NVMe, Storage ... my stufffff.
E - 1TB NVMe, Games
F - 500GB 2.5" SATA SSD, Backup.

That is a good configuration for maximizing performance while minimizing cost.. however I chose a different approach.
I have four 2TB SSDs and one 2TB SATA
When ordered, the smallest SSD they offered was a 512gig SSD.  They wanted too much for bigger SSDs, so I ordered my own
2TB and will use their 512GB as either a Christmas Ornament, fancy keychain decoration, offline backup, or sell it to someone

The pro series is just way too expensive compared to the plus.  Pro is NOT worth the price. 
I got them all 2TB so that in the future, I can easily swap them out.. migrate between them. 
For instance, every few years, I could choose a different SSD to be my boot SSD.  Theoretically extending the life of my laptop SSDs by 4 times. 

The method you mentioned of killing the MBR on the old drive would work, but I found a way to keep the MBR on both drives (wasn't easy). 
By having two SSD's that are bootable, I can do things like install software to test out and play with to be sure how to best configure it or 
whether to keep it at all before infecting my "permanent" system with it.   I'm currently playing around with Dragon / Nuance Naturally Speaking 
on the "old" 512 SSD that shipped with the laptop.  

My best laptop up until 10 days ago was my ASUS Q534UXK  That one was limited to have only 16GB of RAM which is not enough.  That is why 
I bought this new MSI which has 128GB or RAM.  While waiting forever to get the MSI shipped to me, I found out the people who work at ASUS were
WRONG.. and the memory on that computer is NOT limited to 16GB.  Increasing the RAM on my ASUS improved it's performance so much, that had
I done that before ordering the MSI, I wouldn't have spent a king's ransom for my MSI.  

My ASUS has a touchscreen which I love.  I can use my external touchscreen with my MSI since they don't offer one.  
The camera on my ASUS is better than that on my MSI, which annoys me.. but I bought an external 4k Logitech to replace it.  
Wouldn't it be nice if they installed Logitech cameras into laptops?  

One other annoyance of this MSI laptop is the pulsing rainbow keyboard.  The novelty of that ran out for me after about 1 day.  All it is good for is
drawing attention to my laptop when in public, making it a target for theft.
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pennknig

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1) 512GB as either ................. offline backup.

2) The pro series is just way too expensive compared to the plus.  Pro is NOT worth the price.

 3) Theoretically extending the life of my laptop SSDs by 4 times.

4) The method you mentioned of killing the MBR on the old drive would work, but I found a way to keep the MBR on both drives (wasn't easy).

5) My ASUS has a touchscreen which I love.

6) One other annoyance of this MSI laptop is the pulsing rainbow keyboard.  
1) Perfect internal backup drive.

2) Pro is for benchmark geeks, you and your PC will never experience the difference even from toh EVO to the Plus.

3) By the time your SSD's are worn out, there will be something newer and 5x faster available in the market. Your putting stock into something that depreciates and antiquities as fast as bananas spoil. A waist of money.

4) You just asking for problems should you ever have to refresh, or reinstall windows......You make your own headaches.

5) Finger prints ........ Ewwwww! Toucha my screen I breaka you finger.

6) Change it in Steelseries or use the QL button.
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glengarycamTopic starter

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Again... 
The benchmarks of the Samsung Pro and Plus are very similar. 
The difference is in the durability in which the Pro has twice the lifespan.  

I like the SteelSeries keyboard better now that I found ways to configure it to do things like do an interactive light show to music videos.  
(which reminds me.. I have to dig up Winamp from somewhere.. it was discontinued, but it made fantastic graphics out of MP3 files with the right plug-ins).
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pennknig

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Again...
The benchmarks of the Samsung Pro and Plus are very similar.
The difference is in the durability in which the Pro has twice the lifespan.  

I like the SteelSeries keyboard better now that I found ways to configure it to do things like do an interactive light show to music videos.  
(which reminds me.. I have to dig up Winamp from somewhere.. it was discontinued, but it made fantastic graphics out of MP3 files with the right plug-ins).
https://www.google.com/search?q=Winamp&oq=Winamp&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
1st Post.
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glengarycamTopic starter

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Thanks for the Winamp.
==========
While migrating the  512gb SSD that came with the laptop to a 2TB SSD, I noticed that it automatically split the 2tb SSD into a 512GB C: drive, and the remaining 1.5TB into unallocated space. 
The manual method also steers one into the same configuration. 
I could have done a proportional setup, or later expanded the C: drive to be the full 2TB.. but then it occurred to me that it would be better to keep it the way it is.
512GB is plenty for the operating system and installed programs.. even 256GB would be enough for that.
Better to keep the operating system on a separate partition from the data.  
=========
I had luck with my old ASUS laptop.. it came with a 512GB SSD that was quite slow.  The ASUS SSD is extremely hard to replace, mainly because they use a security screw to hold it in.
Every security screw I've seen was a torx screw with a pin in the center.  That would not have been hard to remove because I  have a set of mini torx with the security hole.... however, this screw is a 
PHILLIPS head with a pin in the center!  I don't know how they make those security screws, but that center pin must be made of titanium.  Nothing I did could bend or break that pin off. 
In the process of trying to remove that screw, it got stripped.  I still managed to get the screw out, but considering it was holding down the end of the SSD chip and there is a load of very 
sensitive, electric components around that screw, that was RISKY!  It worked though, and it is amazing how much faster that computer is with a high speed SSD to replace the slow one that it shipped
with.  I tried booting that laptop with a mechanical SATA drive and it took 10 minutes!  Anybody who doesn't have an SSD for a boot drive is punishing themselves. 
-------
As for my new MSI...
It has One SATA slot (which I have a 2TB drive in)
It also has FIVE SSD slots (for some reason, I thought it had four).   Each of those slots can take a 2TB SSD,  So my laptop will have 12GB storage total once I get one more SSD.
I would agree that virtually nobody needs 12TB storage and 128GB RAM in a laptop.  I will use it for a special project I've been working on for over 7 years.. but I would not recommend other people getting that carried away.

What really blows my mind is that to this day.. retail computer stores only put 16GB of RAM into their systems.. even if the system is $5000.  
My MSI was slow as mud and running out of memory quite often with just 16GB.  
==========
One other thing about this MSI I ordered... it was advertised quite clearly as coming with the games "Wolfenstein" and "Control".  It did not.  Instead it came with a CODE to download Wolfenstein when it is released on July 27.
Control is not released until August 27.. and the yoyo on the phone said I'm not eligible for that game.  We shall see about that!
What is the point of promoting games that have not been released yet?  Weird.

One game that DID come with it is "Fallout Shelter" - which is a terrible game.  I wonder if anybody plays the game Fallout Shelter for more than 1 day.
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pennknig

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Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. Thanks for the Winamp. ==========
Better to keep the operating system on a separate partition from the data.  
=========
It also has FIVE SSD slots (for some reason, I thought it had four).  
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What really blows my mind is that to this day.. retail computer stores only put 16GB of RAM into their systems.. even if the system is $5000.  
My MSI was slow as mud and running out of memory quite often with just 16GB.  
Partitions for an SSD are useless as its a 'Logical' partition, nor a physical partition as a HDD would have.
All you need for an SSD is folders, as the data is spread evenly across all surface of the NAND chips, and randomly at that. Garbage Collection, or Trim will overwrite and place data anywhere that is its available so the chips wear evenly.
HDD have physical partitions, you can shortstroke the disk and make your partitions sequentially slower, starting with your OS in the 1st partiond, being the outer disk. Consequently you can choose where the data is physically placed on the disk.

The new series GT75 has 1 extra NVMe slot for running OS in RAID.

Manufactures give you 1 stick of RAM as most everyone updates, its to get you up and running. And as a result, your only running single channel so yes, you will be much slower than a Windows XP machine.
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