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Author Topic: B450 Gaming Pro Carbon + R5 3600 Boost probem, WONT boost past 3977Mhz all core  (Read 2815 times)

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eq2galTopic starter

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B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC + Ryzen 5 3600,  vengeance pro rgb 3600mhz ram

OK the MB is the non Max version updated to the latest bios V18, fresh windows 10 install Etc it boots it windows just fine, down clocks fine, voltage at idle is nice and low, The Problem is the Boost, It doesn't matter what power profile i use ive tried them all, it doesn't matter if i use PBO, PBO + AutoOC +200Mhz, or stock it will NOT boost to 4.2 not on ANY core a ANY time It doesn't matter which benchmark or stress test i try, All core boost will NOT even get to 4Ghz the highest ive had it boost all core is 3977 Mhz.  Single core is barely into 4Ghz it wont even reach 4.1, CPU-Z says the Max core multiplier is 41 doesn't matter what i run, 41 is the Max  

Stock, PBO, PBO + AutoOC 200Mhz ALL give the same boost clock and the same Max 41 multi and the same Cinebench score. the ONLY way i even get close to 4.2Ghz is if i enable Game boost in the Bios then i get the 4.2Ghz im supposed to get, BUT then i have the high idle voltages and it doesn't down clock so its not really worth using and probably not safe to use long term, I Dont want to be Forced to Manually overclock just to get the performance i should be getting at stock.

I KNOW its not a cooling issue, it idles at 32-34c and has never even seen 80c even after running an hour of AIDA64, 

Ive tried reflashing the bios,  tried 1 stick of ram, tried down clocking the ram, tried resetting cmos, loading defaults Etc tried every power profile, All bios PBO profiles Etc, its VERY VERY frustrating, i bought this board because all the reviews praised this board...i am now Seriously regretting getting this pile of junk. 

All i want is for my R5 3600 to work properly at stock, and to Boost like it should. boosting to 4Ghz+all core would be nice, and the core multi to not be locked at 41 Max.. i would Love to see higher than 3977Mhz all core but Nooooooo nothing i have tried works, even  single core wont reach 4.1 its like Msi Have decided that im not even allowed to reach 4Ghz.

Seriously thinking of returning the Msi board and r5 3600 and going back to gigabyte and intel, ive NEVER had such problems with a board and processor before... I will not be recommending them thats for sure.

Anyone know how to fix this or have the same problem?
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paprika79

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Can you give us some more details on your system? What PSU are you using, how many drives do you have in the system what graphicscard is in the system? Because if it is not a heat issue, then it is a power issue. What App are you using to read out temperature and clock speed? You should always use latest version of Ryzen Master from AMD to get correct readouts.
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Leonard

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This is related also to AMD Agesa code and maybe AMD might improve this in the new agesa in the future,
for the meantime, you could try this bios with older Agesa 1.0.0.3 which allows you to have higher frequency.


E7B85AMS.17M
https://www.dropbox.com/s/r58ekd3cfareawq/E7B85AMS.17M?dl=0
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eq2galTopic starter

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Hello and thank you for your reply's i do appreciate it.

I am using a 650w Evga G2 power supply, i have 3 drives in the pc, 1 nvme OS drive ( 250Gb ) 1 180Gb ssd for a couple of games and a 1Tb Hdd for storage. i have 3 200mm case fans, and 1 120mm, my graphics card is a GTX 970, my cpu cooler is a Dark rock Pro 4 and the cpu run idle at around 32-34c, its never hit 80c even in AIDA64 after an hour. i think the hottest ive seen was Just touching 74c

Programs ive used to take temps, core speeds Etc are Ryzen master ( Latest version ) CPU-Z and HWinfo. all 3 say pretty much the same.

Many thanks in advance
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paprika79

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Well in terms of Power you should be fine. That 650W has 54A on the 12v and that is more than enough. So what else could it be? As Leonard already said, that can be a Bios issue and also AMD released a statement about max. speeds of their CPUs since alot of people were complaining about them not reaching advertized speeds.
https://www.techpowerup.com/258201/amd-updates-ryzen-product-pages-to-elaborate-on-max-boost-clocks
https://community.amd.com/community/gaming/blog/2018/08/13/understanding-precision-boost-overdrive-in-three-easy-steps
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eq2galTopic starter

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 Thank you for the reply, i have actually read those, along with a LOT of others Hehe. 

It Still doesn't explain my Cpu's/ MB's behaviour. It doesn't Seem to matter what power plan i use, or if i set PBO on or Off, AutoOC on or off, PBO + AutoOC  will get the same Cinebench scores no matter what, Same all core boost levels No matter what i use, it will NEVER hit 4Ghz all core..the ONLY time this changes is if i enable Game boost in the Bios, Then and only then do my scores change, But then i get the high idle voltage problem, voltage then sits at a constant 1.42v at idle and doesn't downclock compared to Stock where voltage sits around 0.9v idle and the cpu does downclock, but then i have the Rubbish boost performance issue, SO i cant win either way lol

I am using the V18 Bios and its total Junk, its all washed out and grey and ugly, Half the features don't work, things say Enter to select...ummm yeah right, hitting Enter does Nothing. Hopefully Msi get this sorted sooner rather than later coz this is VERY frustrating and making me regret changing from intel to Amd.
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montyac

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You might have a dud CPU. Might need to RMA it.
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eq2galTopic starter

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if it was a dud cpu why would it work just fine at 4.2 with game boost selected in bios?

it seems to be some bios issue /bug / setting thats not working properly but works if game boost is enabled which is really weird
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buddyw53

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With my 3700X I've learned you can't get too wrapped up in looking a CPU clocks to infer processor performance because of it's opportunistic boosting algorithm.  I've learned the best way to infer performance is to run benchmarks... Cinebench 20 seems to be the best.  Compare performance to what the (reliable) reviewers have gotten for the same processor, if I'm getting within 10 pts of their scores then I'm confident my system's performing up to standards.  I'm actually beating their scores by 20-30 pts even though I also never see boost clocks anywhere close to max boost.  I think because I have a 240mm AIO and all they used was stock cooling.

The algorithm is very dependent on temperature: if your system is too hot it won't boost as high or as long and you'll drop in CB20 scores.  If your room is hot, with ambient 30C or above for instance, that could be a problem. Also  if you run back-to-back you can expect the second round to be lower if the system is still hot from the first run.  If you're running stock cooling it won't get as good a scores as running a 240mm AIO (for instance), and back-to-back differences will be far greater.

Even if the ambient is cool, you have great cooling, your TIM is the best and perfectly applied you may never see max boost clocks because they come and go way to fast to catch.  The processor boosts and pulls back on 1ms intervals... monitoring software operates on 2000ms intervals.  It could boost a dozen times to max clock and you'd never catch it.  If you increase monitoring interval to try to catch it then the monitoring software will load down the processor and it won't boost, possibly at all.  You need an oscilloscope or logic analyzer to catch it.
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eq2galTopic starter

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i cant get even within 50 points, let alone 10 points, my highest score ( without using game boost ) is 3486 on cinebench R20. as i have said, to doesn't seem to matter if i use PBO, PBO + AutoOC, AutoOC or Stock the scores are the same, within a couple of points. cooling is not the problem, neither is power, i have latest drivers, latest bios, latest chipset drivers Etc, Fresh windows 10 install Etc. doesnt make a difference what power plan i use either.
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montyac

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if it was a dud cpu why would it work just fine at 4.2 with game boost selected in bios?

it seems to be some bios issue /bug / setting thats not working properly but works if game boost is enabled which is really weird

I missed read your post, thought you were only reaching under 4GHZ. It is strange that you can't get to 4.2.
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eq2galTopic starter

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yes very strange, I Cant even reach 4Ghz not with Pbo on, Or off, Or AutoOC on or off, or PBO + AutoOC Or even stock it doesn't hit 4ghz.. As i said above, the ONLY time i get get it to hit 4Ghz+ is when i Enable Game boost in the Bios, and then and Only then can i hit 4Ghz+  So yeah..some really weird stuff going on.
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buddyw53

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i cant get even within 50 points, let alone 10 points, my highest score ( without using game boost ) is 3486 on cinebench R20....
OK...if your read the AMD Community article you'll remember that your processor will only ever hit Max Boost on one single core when everything lines up right.  So ST thread scores are more interesting to see if your boosting well, but MT is useful to know if you are constrained.

Something to try: enable PBO, put it in ADVANCED mode, then enter 1000 for all the parameters.  Some may only go so far, the idea is to max them out.

Then go down to PBO Scalar, set it to MANUAL then set the scalar to 10X.

exit that and go to CPU voltage: set it to OFFSET, + direction, and .0250 to give a +.0250 boost to voltage.  Now save settings and reboot.

Check voltage first thing using something reliable like HWinfo64... the SVI2 voltage should never exceed 1.50 volts, in idle, as your mousing about, clicking and dragging windows. If it does then go back into BIOS and back off on that offest but never go to a '-' offset, just leave voltage in auto.

When you boot, disable everything in the system tray you can; leave defender running though.  No Steam, no iCue, no Origin, no video card or motherboard utilities.  Now startup CB 20 but before you run it open Task Manager and go to Details tab. Find Cinebench icon right click on it and set Priority to RealTime. Then dismiss Task Manager.

Now run Cinebench benchmark. Once it fires off you won't have mouse because 100% of the threads are loaded in real time running the bench, you also won't see the picture being rendered until it's done.  You will in single thread though as only one thread is locked up running the bench.

EDIT ADD: oh yeah! something I noticed in my BIOS (I have a B450 Mortar)... set C-States to ENABLED and Cool-N-Quiet to DISABLED and I also set SVM (processor virtualization) disabled to achieve best scores.

I had to set CnQ disabled, yours may be different and need it enabled.  At any rate, don't just leave it in AUTO, try both ways to see which works.
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eq2galTopic starter

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Disabling cool'n'quiet doesn't seem to effect speeds only thing it seem to do on mine, is stops the chip downclocking at idle and keeps the voltage high at idle too

it seems for some weird reason, my core multiplier is locked at a Max of 41 preventing it from boosting properly, ive run cinebench with cpu-z running and with HWinfo running ( yeah i know i wont get the best scores ) to see what happened to the multiplier and to boost cores.. as you can see, it seems locked to 41 Max.

I tried what the above posted said, and it did absolutely nothing for my best R20 score at stock, or even with autoOC + pbo, its all the same.

Even doing a Single core test, it WONT boost past that 4.1Ghz limit, on single core it hits 4097Mhz for a moment and that's it. it seems that with it set on auto in the bios, the bios is limiting me to a 41 multiplier for some unknown reason. I hope they fix this issue soon

on all core it hits a max of 3996 Mhz which is to be expected to be lower that single core, but for some reason i am missing about 100Mhz on all core and single core because of some unknown limit caping me at 41 Multi
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buddyw53

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Wow...yeah...well...if you can't set the core multiplier to AUTO and it's locked at 41.00 that's not gonna be good.

Try doing a CMOS reset (disconnect power, pull battery, short CMOS reset pins, let it sit a few minutes with the short on).  Then after rebooting go straight into BIOS and do a Load Optimized Defaults.  Then don't make any other changes to BIOS, save settings and boot up into Windows and repeat Cinebench tests to see what it does in pure default settings.

EDIT ADD: Oh wait...have you got Game Boost enabled? turn that off! disable it. turn off any 'auto overclocking' too.
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eq2galTopic starter

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done all that, several times lol. and to be clear ( sorry if i wasnt before ) the multiplier is set to AUTO in the bios, but once booted into windows it seems to be locked at a MAX of 41 as shown in the screenshots above.  I took a screenshot while running cinebench R20 all core test and running CPU-Z to show whats going on....look at the multiplier, it fluctuates between 39.5 and 39.75 MAX under all core load.

No i dont have any overclocking enabled, ive tried everything, I mentioned the game boost in bios, as i tried it a couple of times to see what would happen, and it runs at 4.2Ghz all the time even at idle and high idle voltage which i dont want and shouldnt have to be forced to do just to get the performance i should get at stock.. and yes i disabled game boost right after and keep it disabled, its not worth using.
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eq2galTopic starter

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I tried going back to the V17 bios...Aaaannnnnddddd Nothing, runs Exactly the same, Same problem, im Capped at a Multiplier of 41, So single core will boost to Just under 4.1, Around 4996Mhz, and because of that the All more boost is obviously lower and gets a lovely low ass multi of 39.5-39.75 so i get a MAX all core boost of Up to a whopping 3996Mhz  its kinda sad when your chip cant even hit 4ghz on Stock, PBO or AutoOC.

I hope Msi bring out a new Bios soon that fixes this, im running out of time to return this Junk.
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Leonard

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I tried going back to the V17 bios...Aaaannnnnddddd Nothing, runs Exactly the same, Same problem, im Capped at a Multiplier of 41, So single core will boost to Just under 4.1, Around 4996Mhz, and because of that the All more boost is obviously lower and gets a lovely low ass multi of 39.5-39.75 so i get a MAX all core boost of Up to a whopping 3996Mhz  its kinda sad when your chip cant even hit 4ghz on Stock, PBO or AutoOC.

I hope Msi bring out a new Bios soon that fixes this, im running out of time to return this Junk.

So when you say you try 17 bios, does it mean to say you are using 170 or you have tried the 17M beta bios which got different Agesa code?
as this is AMD Agesa code issue, so you could only use other version of Agesa code to get higher frequency first until AMD solve the issue with future codes.
Note:  17M bios is different from 170 bios according to MSI.

E7B85AMS.17M
https://www.dropbox.com/s/r58ekd3cfareawq/E7B85AMS.17M?dl=0
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eq2galTopic starter

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Hmm it seems the one i tried is the 170, i just double checked, i'll download the one in your link and try that and see what happens, i'll let you know in a bit :)
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eq2galTopic starter

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OK so i tried the bios you linked...it will go into bios just fine and it will post...but it refuses to go into window, it just sits there with the spinning circle looking dumb, Soo it looks like i  am stuck with a bios that caps the multiplier at 41 until msi release a new bios that hopefully fixes things.
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Leonard

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try clearing CMOS and run at default first and see see if it's the OC that is keeping you from booting to windows or not..
then after successfully booting to windows then try the OC part.
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eq2galTopic starter

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I always load the new bios, then clear cmos straight after, then i log into bios and load performance defaults, then save exit, and try and load into windows.  i dont try to do ANYTHING else in the bios until i know i can log into windows
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eq2galTopic starter

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Finally got the 17m bios to work properly, i have to RE load it again, clear cmos Again, load defaults, Then it would load into windows.. OK so the Multiplier now goes up to 42, BUT when running cinebench R20 multi threaded test, it Still sits there at up to 39.8 Max multiplier, Still not hitting 4Ghz,+ scores are still 60-70ish points below other peoples, PBO does nothing, PBO + AutoPC +200 does nothing, Still get the same 39.8 multiplier and only 3986Mhz

So I disabled PBO, and i manually entered 42 core multi into the bios, left cpu voltage at auto, and booted into windows, Multiplier showing as 42 in HWinfo, run cinebench R20 multithreaded test, All cores 100% at 4199Mhz and increased my best score by over 130 points, ran the test 10 times back to back with same results,  So in conclusion my chip CAN run at the boost clock its supposed to , it CAN run at the proper multiplier, it can run at 4.2Ghz even 4.2Ghz all core which was surprising as i was expecting it to crash at 4.2 all core to be honest, even after running cinebench 10 times back to back with no break it was rock solid.  Ive reset the multiplier back to auto in the bios for now.

Sooooo i know my chip isnt a total Dud, there is Something weird going on, when the Multiplier is set to Auto in the bios. it Refuses to Boost properly when set to auto, its missing about 100Mhz off the all core and single core Ive now tried the 17M bios, the 170 and 180 bios too, all with the same results, im missing around 80-100Mhz off single and all core boosts, Multiplier will NOT increase past 39.8 all core and 40.9 on single core. Enabling PBO or AutoOC does absolutely Zero the cinebench scores are exactly the same as when at stock and the core boosts are the Exact same and the Multipliers are the Exact same..

I wish i knew What the Heck was going on, its like my board HATES the Auto core multiplier setting or something, its like a petulant child, not wanting to do as its told, you tell it to give 42, it throws toys at you, says screw you and gives you 41 instead.. hurry up and fix this Msi its REALLY annoying.
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eq2galTopic starter

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I go to Start the PC this afternoon and again it wont boot into windows, im still on the 17m bios, i had to clear cmos again, then go into bios, load defaults, and THEN it would load into windows.. I don't want to have to do this every time i want to start the pc. the one issue i have is annoying enough without this new one too. 

R5 3600 Still not boosting properly, Still missing around 100 Ish Mhz off of all core and single boosts. I wish i knew what to do, if its a bios issue, or a cpu issue as time is running out to return the cpu, But if i do that and its a bios issue i could end up with the same darn issue again with a new cpu and i would have wasted time and returned the Cpu for Nothing.
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eq2galTopic starter

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Okay so i really dont like the 17M bios lol, everytime i restart the PC it wont reboot, it just sits there with the red cpu debug light on..i have to switch the pc Off and then on again and hope it turns on....Going to go back to the V18 bios and format and reinstall windows and see if that helps the boost problem
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eq2galTopic starter

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just completed Full reinstall of windows 10, all drivers, windows updates, re flashed the bios again back to V18, cleared cmos again, loaded performance defaults...aaaannnnndddddd Same Damn results, Still wont boost properly, Still missing around 80-100Mhz off of allcore and single core boosts.. as a result my chip is running like a bag of crap.. R20 scores are up 100 points+ lower than everyone else at Stock,  So im at a total loss, Do i send the cpu back and Hope and prey the new chip works or wait for a New bios to come out that HOPEFULLY fixes things????
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eq2galTopic starter

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i don't know if this makes much of a difference but i am also running Corsair vengeance Pro Rgb 3600 Mhz Ram 2x8Gb sticks. running at default speeds doesn't seem to make a difference
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paprika79

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It is not a CPU issue, it is a Bios issue. Sending back the CPU wont do you any good. Change the board to a X570 if you don't want to wait for a decent stable Bios. CPU running like "bag of crap" why? because you get 100 points less in cinebench? Is that what you are doing with your PC all day? Staring at cinebench and trying to crack new highscore? Then you got the wrong cpu anyway, should have gotten the 3900x for that. Really Fu*k Cinebench, do things you always do and enjoy the better speed compared to your previous CPU.
Seriously, people always fu*king crazy about synthetic benchmarks..
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eq2galTopic starter

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No i don't sit here all day looking at Cinebench, i use Cinebench because its a good way to put the cpu under load and it gives scores to compare how my pc is performing compared to others with similar systems. and as for running like a Bag of crap, well running UP to 200 Mhz  below what it should be at stock, PBO not working, AutoOC not working and all giving the same performance/ boosts/ multipliers as Stock. not posting at least half the time, having to randomly clear cmos to get it to post again, Etc etc....Yeah id say thats running like a bag of crap wouldn't you?

And the boost issue and none working PBO/ AutoOC not working is not limited to to 300/400 series boards... lots of people have the same issue i have been experiencing with X570 boards

Just look on reddit there are lots of them.

like this for for instance https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/cd6tgk/agesaupdate_for_full_boost_ryzen_3900x_retest/etsryti/?st=jzc2p3ky&sh=1f8114f2

If links are not allowed feel free to remove it :)
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eq2galTopic starter

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Updated to the Latest Beta Bios today E7B85AMS.193 PBO/ auto OC still does Nothing, no performance boost, boost clocks Still not boosting correctly, But performance is now WORSE with this new bios..I compared performance against previous Cinebench R20 scores to gauge any performance difference , Oh there is a Difference alright...Scores DROPPED by over 50+ points closer to 60 points actually. So New bios versions aint fixing problem, they making it Worse.. Installed latest amd chipset drivers before i installed this new bios...No performance change...load on this new Beta bios..Uggg, going Back to V18  at least the performance wasn't This bad
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tohlmann

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Hi,

I got same problems with B450M Gaming plus and R5 3600 Corsair LPX VENGEANCE 3000-CL16 bios 1.8 now updated to beta 191 from this forum because of system fan stop spinning.
Never hit 4200Mhz max 4150Mhz in CINEBENCH R15 single core run. Bought Motherboard+ram+cpu as a upgrade combo (390€) so i can live with the 4150Mhz .Changing bios settings in overclock tab does nothing so i found the best setting for me is all auto in cpu section and just tweaked memory timings with that ryzen dram calculator. Leaved voltage to auto enabled cool'n'quiet in bios got voltage in idle to 1,09v and 1.45v in charge. Mounted an old NH-D15 with 3 fans 60°c in charge 30 idle.

testing new bios 194 : same 4150 boost. 

https://imgur.com/a/jE1bP9o
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oatkk.th

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My MSI B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC My Ryzen 3600 boost to 4.3 GHz with V.17m Bios (Fist Ryzen 3000 Bios For this Board and they remove it)

After Update to V.17-V.193 My Ryzen 3600 won't boost higher than 4.175 all core 

So I'm move back to V.17m and it boost to 4.3 All core again.
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mjtee

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Hi there,

had to register to say one point to this thread. Obviously there are reasons behind bios versions and motherboards and settings. Please do remember that Ryzens differ a lot from each other also. I had a chance to try two different 3600s on same motherboard (b450 gaming plus max stock bios) and difference was huge. Other one boosting 4,2GHz with all cores (not simultaneously but still) and the other one max at 4,1GHz. Below 4GHz multithreading boost with that. Kept the one with better boosting abilities.  So the point here is that all cores are different and all processors are different. You may not be able to cure boosting problems with the bios or mobo.  [ ERROR: SPECIFIED ATTACHMENT MISSING ]
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Nichrome

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Those CPUs not boosting the way they should are all over the internet and are not MSI related.
It's AMD's AGESA that limits it for whatever reason.
There is currently nothing MSI or other manufacturers can do, unless AMD fixes things in AGESA. If you look, internet is full of articles how Ryzen 3000 boosts differently based on AGESA.

Bunch of examples



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I only take responsibility for what I say, not for what you understand.  Any posts are my own views!

Errors are red, My screen is blue .I think I deleted, System32.
99% of issues would be solved if people would read the manual first.

eq2galTopic starter

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My R5 3600 cant hit Max boost on Even one core let alone all core lol. Max it hits on a single core is just under 4.1Ghz, its like 4096Mhz and thats it, ALL core it doesn't even hit 4Ghz, again its just under its around 3996Mhz or so, PBO and AutoOC do absolutely Zero, i get same clock speeds, and same scores on whatever test i try  So yeah, something funny going on..

Hopefully AMD will fix the AGESA problem and then MSI can go about giving us Bios that work the way they are supposed to. MSI can only do so much until AMD give them a AGESA that fixes the issue, until then its a waiting game i guess.
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eq2galTopic starter

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i've noticed is that no matter what bios version i try or what benchmark or monitoring tool i use the Core ratio NEVER goes over 41.0 EVER.

i've done some more testing, and i've had really good results with Tweaking the Bclk, I got the best results with Bclk set to 103, I set a Cpu offset voltage to -0.0500v because the voltage just looked Crazy high to me. I got a cinebench R20 score ( all core) of 3616 and a Single core Score of 478 I did have to lower memory settings though i have 3600Mhz ram, and with the Bclk set to 103 my ram was over 3700+ with A-xmp on profile 1, it didn't want to boot, so i set the ram to 3533 or something like that to get around 3638Mhz and it boots just fine, voltage is much better, temps are nice and low, everything is Boosting like it is supposed to. boosting over 4.223 single core.  Core ratio Still NEVER once got over 41.0. which is Weird.. so i think i'll stick with this until they fix the issues with the bios evenever AMD fix Agesa that is. 
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mjtee

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If you look, internet is full of articles how Ryzen 3000 boosts differently based on AGESA.

I was adding that also ryzen 3000s seem to differ. My tests had same mobo, same settings, same bios, same agesa, same cooler, same temps. Only thing that changed was the 3600. Bad booster happened to be 1918 SUT and the better one is 1923 SUT. Yes - the agesa does the limiting but I don't think it chooses randomly how.
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ah_hao208

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I experience the same issue  X470 Gaming Pro Carbon + R5 3600 - max all cores 3925Mhz max single core 4080Mhz

Driver version 7B78v2A
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