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Author Topic: Why is AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB taking so long to rollout?  (Read 2527 times)

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DeadMan3000Topic starter

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flobelix

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Re: Why is AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB taking so long to rollout?
« Reply #1 on: 14-August-19, 16:29:27 »

You will need to ask MSI and you aren't asking MSI when posting on this forum: >>How to contact MSI.<<
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buddyw53

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They haven't even gotten all their motherboards updated to 1003ab full-release BIOS'.  Let's let that happen first.

What are you expecting from 1003abb anyway? All I know of is a fix for starting one, mostly un-played, game and there is a work-around for that provided by updated chipset drivers.  The problem with some Linux distro's was fixed by their developers' flexible and practical approach...they just fixed it on their end.

I'm more interested in MSI getting a solid and stable BIOS release with 1003abb at the core.  I want all the machine features to be enabled and to work exactly right.  I'd also like to get current, but if that takes a bit longer as they fully regression test on every board to be sure that happens then I, for one, will be quite happy enough to wait a bit longer. 1003ab is already working well enough on my Mortar.

BTW: I think MSI works on a monthly release cycle.  So I sort of expect new releases to happen around Aug 30 or Sept 1, but won't be surprised if it's a bit later since it will roll out to so many boards.
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Nichrome

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Re: Why is AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB taking so long to rollout?
« Reply #4 on: 15-August-19, 06:39:13 »

As per topic, it's because it isn't as easy and simple as counting "1 2 3". MSI have 50+ boards to work through.
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evilkitty

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Re: Why is AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB taking so long to rollout?
« Reply #5 on: 15-August-19, 10:35:43 »

my x470 gameing plus just got a update today, well it says it was on the 2ed, but i have been checking the page twice a day for a week or so now and it is there now

all i want is to be able to save profiles to a usb stick, using screenshots is not fun
but i just got better ram support, though i can't tell that it did anything

This bios has a completely redundant overclocking section and no profile export option
Advanced -> AMD Overclocking -> Accept
Overclocking -> Advanced CPU Configuration
Some stuff is just under Overclocking

edit: my ram may be running 15% faster on the same settings https://imgur.com/zB8gtUG (Current vs result 2)
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buddyw53

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Re: Why is AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB taking so long to rollout?
« Reply #6 on: 15-August-19, 12:39:18 »

my x470 gameing plus just got a update today, well it says it was on the 2ed, but i have been checking the page twice a day for a week or so now and it is there now

all i want is to be able to save profiles to a usb stick, using screenshots is not fun
...
That's really strange. B450 Mortar got OC profile support at the release of the 2nd BIOS with 1003ab, and your board's had two (at least) releases with 1003ab, one (possibly) with 1003abb.

OC Profiles is found under Advanced > OCProfiles. Should be under Save and Exit IMO;  it makes more sense there but it's not.
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jere.cosita88

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Re: Why is AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB taking so long to rollout?
« Reply #7 on: 15-August-19, 16:44:40 »

I have seen in other forums that you gain performance with ABB.
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buddyw53

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Re: Why is AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB taking so long to rollout?
« Reply #8 on: 15-August-19, 17:39:50 »

I have seen in other forums that you gain performance with ABB.
Will be nice if it's true!
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evilkitty

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Re: Why is AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB taking so long to rollout?
« Reply #9 on: 15-August-19, 22:03:41 »

That's really strange. B450 Mortar got OC profile support at the release of the 2nd BIOS with 1003ab, and your board's had two (at least) releases with 1003ab, one (possibly) with 1003abb.

OC Profiles is found under Advanced > OCProfiles. Should be under Save and Exit IMO;  it makes more sense there but it's not.
None of the x470 boards have profiles...
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evilkitty

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Re: Why is AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB taking so long to rollout?
« Reply #10 on: 17-August-19, 20:38:59 »

None of the x470 boards have profiles...
I just found it
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rombat

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Re: Why is AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB taking so long to rollout?
« Reply #11 on: 18-August-19, 14:43:11 »

I am waiting for MSI to show some loving for their Prestige x570 creation I see they released the beta bios updates ABB for the x570 Godlike motherboard.
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Re: Why is AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB taking so long to rollout?
« Reply #12 on: 19-August-19, 04:34:40 »

NEW BIOS for ACE in ftp server
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smog

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Re: Why is AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB taking so long to rollout?
« Reply #13 on: 19-August-19, 15:41:29 »

As per topic, it's because it isn't as easy and simple as counting "1 2 3". MSI have 50+ boards to work through.

It is MSI's decision how much boards they will release, I am not sure why customers should worry about it? All other vendors have 1.0.0.3ABB for most of the boards. MSI has the only beta for most of the (x370/x470)board's, with a lot of lags, like boot issues, PCIex 2.0 issue. etc. About 45 days passed from ZEN 2 release day, it was plenty of time to fix and release normal release BIOSes.
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mongoled

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Re: Why is AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB taking so long to rollout?
« Reply #14 on: 21-August-19, 09:27:41 »

This is MSI BIOS engineers dealing with Ryzen 3000 series

Quote
OO-oo, days go by
I just sit around and get real high
OO-oo, what a glow
I just hang out, they come and go

MSI really, just really.

Completely useless, drop them an email the mods say, you will also receive back an equally useless response
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tanghm

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Re: Why is AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB taking so long to rollout?
« Reply #15 on: 22-August-19, 01:52:09 »

1.0.0.3ABB Beta bios is now out for all the X570 boards
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mongoled

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Re: Why is AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB taking so long to rollout?
« Reply #16 on: 22-August-19, 02:09:27 »

Still waiting for MSI to release a stable BIOS for a previous ''flagship motherboard''

the now INFAMOUS X370 XPOWER Gaming Titanium...........................
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smog

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Re: Why is AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB taking so long to rollout?
« Reply #17 on: 22-August-19, 06:39:42 »

I have created few support tickets about BIOSes for x370 boards, but no one cares. The reply is always the same, please wait bla bla bla....
No one cares that I could not use my new 3700x processor with my motherboard.  I have two NVM SSD drives, and they work very bad in PCIEx2 mode.
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mongoled

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Re: Why is AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB taking so long to rollout?
« Reply #18 on: 22-August-19, 07:50:20 »

I have created few support tickets about BIOSes for x370 boards, but no one cares. The reply is always the same, please wait bla bla bla....
No one cares that I could not use my new 3700x processor with my motherboard.  I have two NVM SSD drives, and they work very bad in PCIEx2 mode.
Well I think you know what we must do.

Its time to start boycotting MSI products because they have no respect for their old customers.

They only care about new customers.

I am already informing people from my huge network not to buy any MSI products because the company is only interested in collecting monies.

It does not matter to them that they sold us an underwhelming flagship motherboard, so we should repay them in kind.................
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shabbirh

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Re: Why is AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB taking so long to rollout?
« Reply #19 on: 22-August-19, 17:11:19 »

Well I think you know what we must do.

Its time to start boycotting MSI products because they have no respect for their old customers.

They only care about new customers.

I am already informing people from my huge network not to buy any MSI products because the company is only interested in collecting monies.

It does not matter to them that they sold us an underwhelming flagship motherboard, so we should repay them in kind.................
I think that is unfair.

MSI has one of the largest ranges of motherboards of any vendor, and their boards are all of pretty decent quality.  They have currently got BIOS versions out that work for the most part, and are reasonable.  To suggest that people start boycotting them because of this, which then somehow means they don't have respect for their customers is not really a wise move.

The Beta versions of the 1.0.0.3abb AGESA version are now out for most of their boards - see - https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=323855.0;topicseen - and while I've not updated mine (I prefer to wait for production-grade/release BIOS versions, and the only real problem that bugs me with MSI MEG X570 ACE is the idle temps and high voltages when running applications like Corsair's iCUE and Discord, and I can live with that.

I think sometimes people don't understand how complex a process is for getting a BIOS released, having worked in software development for decades, and having worked on BIOS editions for various systems (not with MSI but others mainly server grade), I know the pitfalls of rushing a BIOS release.

We need to understand the due to the very nature of the BIOS - the fact that it is a Basic Input/Output System, the core of your PC, if the BIOS is rushed, and something is accidentally missed, then you essentially have a bricked motherboard, and I've heard horror stories of such eventualities happening, with RMA rates going through the roof.

Given the sheer complexity of what MSI has to do, the fact that they have - or rather had - stable decent BIOS versions out for the majority of their boards - not just the new shiny X570 versions - but also the older ones right down to the A320 boards with AM4 sockets - so that they could, for the most part, run even the Ryzen 9 3900X - and this has been tested and proven in many reviews over on Youtube - including by Tech Yes City and Paul's Hardware.

Another problem they face, is due to the features they have on their boards - if it was as simple as wrapping the AMD supplied AGESA binary blob into their existing BIOS that would be one thing, but it's far far more complicated.  AMD - as I said, provides the AGESA binary blob, they is a binary blob, with start, end address, and specific ways that it needs to be wrapped.  This wrapping of the AGESA needs to be done in a way that the BIOS can still function, and for you and me as end-users, business continues as normal, with minimal impact, and if anything improvements in clock-speeds, voltages and so on.  This is a huge undertaking.

Furthermore you have features like the BIOS flashback and the M-Flash, which need to be tested and ensured to be working, then you have lower priority features like the board explorer.  You have a plethora of overclocking combinations - some which are stipulated in the AGESA spec, some which correlate to elements that the AGESA has influence on, but that are specific to a given board, it's VRM make up, it's power delivery, it's memory delivery, it's onboard cooling, fan controls, and now, further things like LED controls for the lovely RGB that we all love.

This is all controllable well before the operating system, but also within the OS, it needs to confirm to a standard API, that is called by applications like CPU-Z, HWINFO64, Aida64 and others to obtain underlying sensor inforamtion.  Yes the sensors exist, but access to the sensors is again via firmware.

The BIOS is an extremely complicated and advanced piece of software, and that is before we factor in the AGESA blob.  One might argue from an engineering perspective, it is more advanced than Windows or Linux, or any other operating system you may use on your PC, since it provides the functionality for said operating system to run.

Try running anything on a PC with a bricked BIOS - I promise you it'll fail to even POST.

So, to cut a long story short, I think lets cut MSI some serious slack here.  They are working hard, of that I'm certain, and they have a massive task.  It should also be understood that the AM4 boards are not the only boards their software/firmware team need to work with, the industry is in a constant state of flux, new updates are being moved around everywhere all the time, Intel, ARM, AMD and others for the motherboards, for example (yes at times there are ARM components ont he motherboards that need their own little piece of firmware injected into the BIOS), and then you've got the myriad of graphics card that MSI has on it's catalog.

Also, the BIOS needs to be checked with a lot of existing third-party and first-party software to ensure it exposes the correct hooks correctly, so that things don't just randomly break.  They have a complex QA process, and that's why things take a while.

Ryzen 3000 and the X570 chipset have been around for less than 2 months - and while I'm sure MSI and other board vendors have been working on the BIOS's for longer, given the depth of new technology at play, this is not easy.

To put it simply, cut them some slack and don't be the person who just at the first sign of a difficulty gives up and says "we should boycott such and such" that's just plain silly.

Anyways, my two cents worth.

Peace <3
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shabbirh

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Re: Why is AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB taking so long to rollout?
« Reply #20 on: 22-August-19, 17:15:14 »

I have created few support tickets about BIOSes for x370 boards, but no one cares. The reply is always the same, please wait bla bla bla....
No one cares that I could not use my new 3700x processor with my motherboard.  I have two NVM SSD drives, and they work very bad in PCIEx2 mode.
While I don't work for MSI, maybe I can help.

Can you please advise what is wrong with your X370 board, and also which baord is it - which BIOS revision you have, how you applied the BIOS, which operating system, and hardware make up are you operating on?

Also, when you say you "cannot use" your new Ryzen 7 3700X processor on your X370 board - what do you mean?  Do you mean it doesn't post or that it causes BSOD, or what - doesn't work - in software terms means very little I'm sorry to say, a more specific error description is needed.

If you share that information, I'll do what I can to try to help.

All the best :)

Peace <3
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smog

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Re: Why is AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB taking so long to rollout?
« Reply #21 on: 23-August-19, 02:10:59 »


If you share that information, I'll do what I can to try to help.

All the best :)

Peace <3
Thanks for the help, but it is a well-known beta bios issue, the system does not boot in piciex3 mode. I was able to boot with forced from BIOS PCIEX2 mode only. I have to roll back to old bios and x1700, as PCIEX speed is very important for my tasks.
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mongoled

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I think that is unfair.

MSI has one of the largest ranges of motherboards of any vendor, and their boards are all of pretty decent quality.  They have currently got BIOS versions out that work for the most part, and are reasonable.  To suggest that people start boycotting them because of this, which then somehow means they don't have respect for their customers is not really a wise move.

The Beta versions of the 1.0.0.3abb AGESA version are now out for most of their boards - see - https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=323855.0;topicseen - and while I've not updated mine (I prefer to wait for production-grade/release BIOS versions, and the only real problem that bugs me with MSI MEG X570 ACE is the idle temps and high voltages when running applications like Corsair's iCUE and Discord, and I can live with that.

I think sometimes people don't understand how complex a process is for getting a BIOS released, having worked in software development for decades, and having worked on BIOS editions for various systems (not with MSI but others mainly server grade), I know the pitfalls of rushing a BIOS release.

We need to understand the due to the very nature of the BIOS - the fact that it is a Basic Input/Output System, the core of your PC, if the BIOS is rushed, and something is accidentally missed, then you essentially have a bricked motherboard, and I've heard horror stories of such eventualities happening, with RMA rates going through the roof.

Given the sheer complexity of what MSI has to do, the fact that they have - or rather had - stable decent BIOS versions out for the majority of their boards - not just the new shiny X570 versions - but also the older ones right down to the A320 boards with AM4 sockets - so that they could, for the most part, run even the Ryzen 9 3900X - and this has been tested and proven in many reviews over on Youtube - including by Tech Yes City and Paul's Hardware.

Another problem they face, is due to the features they have on their boards - if it was as simple as wrapping the AMD supplied AGESA binary blob into their existing BIOS that would be one thing, but it's far far more complicated.  AMD - as I said, provides the AGESA binary blob, they is a binary blob, with start, end address, and specific ways that it needs to be wrapped.  This wrapping of the AGESA needs to be done in a way that the BIOS can still function, and for you and me as end-users, business continues as normal, with minimal impact, and if anything improvements in clock-speeds, voltages and so on.  This is a huge undertaking.

Furthermore you have features like the BIOS flashback and the M-Flash, which need to be tested and ensured to be working, then you have lower priority features like the board explorer.  You have a plethora of overclocking combinations - some which are stipulated in the AGESA spec, some which correlate to elements that the AGESA has influence on, but that are specific to a given board, it's VRM make up, it's power delivery, it's memory delivery, it's onboard cooling, fan controls, and now, further things like LED controls for the lovely RGB that we all love.

This is all controllable well before the operating system, but also within the OS, it needs to confirm to a standard API, that is called by applications like CPU-Z, HWINFO64, Aida64 and others to obtain underlying sensor inforamtion.  Yes the sensors exist, but access to the sensors is again via firmware.

The BIOS is an extremely complicated and advanced piece of software, and that is before we factor in the AGESA blob.  One might argue from an engineering perspective, it is more advanced than Windows or Linux, or any other operating system you may use on your PC, since it provides the functionality for said operating system to run.

Try running anything on a PC with a bricked BIOS - I promise you it'll fail to even POST.

So, to cut a long story short, I think lets cut MSI some serious slack here.  They are working hard, of that I'm certain, and they have a massive task.  It should also be understood that the AM4 boards are not the only boards their software/firmware team need to work with, the industry is in a constant state of flux, new updates are being moved around everywhere all the time, Intel, ARM, AMD and others for the motherboards, for example (yes at times there are ARM components ont he motherboards that need their own little piece of firmware injected into the BIOS), and then you've got the myriad of graphics card that MSI has on it's catalog.

Also, the BIOS needs to be checked with a lot of existing third-party and first-party software to ensure it exposes the correct hooks correctly, so that things don't just randomly break.  They have a complex QA process, and that's why things take a while.

Ryzen 3000 and the X570 chipset have been around for less than 2 months - and while I'm sure MSI and other board vendors have been working on the BIOS's for longer, given the depth of new technology at play, this is not easy.

To put it simply, cut them some slack and don't be the person who just at the first sign of a difficulty gives up and says "we should boycott such and such" that's just plain silly.

Anyways, my two cents worth.

Peace <3
Hi!

Your opinion is respectfully accepted and it is your entitlement.

That you think my post is unfair is also accepted, though you must see 'through the eyes of the beholder' to understand why a certain person may post/act in the manner they do.

The manner of my posts did not just happen from one day to the next, it is an accumulation of seeing how MSI have acted in the last two years since I became a 'customer' of theirs.

I say 'customer' because there are levels to what a customer comes to expect; so when 'you' purchase a flagship product from a company, it is natural to expect that the item that was purchased is going to be on par to a similar product from alternative companies that are competing within the same industry.

Now I am not going to go into detail why the 'flagship' motherboard that others and myself had purchased is underwhelming as this has been well documented.

It looks that you did not understand that 'we' as x370 titanium owners (maybe more so for myself as I have high expectations), having been let down (again well documented that what we purchased compared to the other manufacturer products that were available was/is lacking features that are expected to be included on a flagship motherboard) are fed up of being continually disrespected by the lack of communication coming from MSI.

Do you think that anyone enjoys wasting their time (that is finite), typing detailed emails explaining in excruciating details to support staff an issue they are having only to receive a copy and paste response ??

This is what MSI do!

There is NO active participation from anybody within the company who has any real impact in offering us users any support that is worth two cents.

All we get are messages that one would tell their 5 year old son,

'it will be ready when it is ready'

'dont post here no one is listening'

'email support (like saying go to you Mum) we cant help you here'

This is not play school, we expect a professional company to have ETAs, we expect when we ask for some form of ETA to receive a relative answer!

You know why they dont give ETAs? Its to keep us in limbo so we wait and dont move to a competitor product, its a form of blackmail

This is the gripe.

Now as I said, your points are all valid, its just that MSI are far far behind the competition in releasing its BIOS updates and because they are taking so long the silence coming from the company is deafening.

Its now been almost two months since we received the first and only BETA BIOS and when we ask whats happening we are treated as children.

How demeaning do you think that is ??

And just for the record, I am a 44 year old male who has been working in the IT industry since 1999, I fully understand the complexities in all that is involved and I fully understand that there are many factors can effect the time scale in releasing stable BIOS for these motherboards.

But that is NO EXCUSE for treating people in the manner they do, its UNACCEPTABLE
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smog

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+1, I am flustrating, the flagship motherboard does not have normal support.... It cost about 400$ in my location in 2017, and I have bought the flagship MB, only because I was expecting normal  BIOS support during all AM4 lifetime. 

And what I see:

ASROCK Taichi x370 BIOS: AMD AGESA Combo-AM4 1.0.0.3 ABB   Release day: 2019/8/8
ROG CROSSHAIR VI HERO BIOS: AM4 Combo PI 1.0.0.3 Patch AB.   Release day: 2019/8/15
Gigabyte GA-AX370-Gaming K7 BIOS:Update AGESA 1.0.0.3 ABB   Release day: 2019/07/31

MSI x370 Titnaium Bios: ONLY BETA Release day: 2019/07/01

OMG, why other vendors are able to do this, and MSI is not? Why other x370 top motherboards have normal BIOSes for about 20+ days. What we are waiting for?
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Nichrome

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Re: Why is AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB taking so long to rollout?
« Reply #24 on: 23-August-19, 04:10:59 »

+1, I am flustrating, the flagship motherboard does not have normal support.... It cost about 400$ in my location in 2017, and I have bought the flagship MB, only because I was expecting normal  BIOS support during all AM4 lifetime.

And what I see:

ASROCK Taichi x370 BIOS: AMD AGESA Combo-AM4 1.0.0.3 ABB   Release day: 2019/8/8
ROG CROSSHAIR VI HERO BIOS: AM4 Combo PI 1.0.0.3 Patch AB.   Release day: 2019/8/15
Gigabyte GA-AX370-Gaming K7 BIOS:Update AGESA 1.0.0.3 ABB   Release day: 2019/07/31

MSI x370 Titnaium Bios: ONLY BETA Release day: 2019/07/01

OMG, why other vendors are able to do this, and MSI is not? Why other x370 top motherboards have normal BIOSes for about 20+ days. What we are waiting for?
>>How to contact MSI.<<
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shabbirh

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Re: Why is AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB taking so long to rollout?
« Reply #25 on: 23-August-19, 04:59:25 »

Hi!

Your opinion is respectfully accepted and it is your entitlement.

That you think my post is unfair is also accepted, though you must see 'through the eyes of the beholder' to understand why a certain person may post/act in the manner they do.

The manner of my posts did not just happen from one day to the next, it is an accumulation of seeing how MSI have acted in the last two years since I became a 'customer' of theirs.

I say 'customer' because there are levels to what a customer comes to expect; so when 'you' purchase a flagship product from a company, it is natural to expect that the item that was purchased is going to be on par to a similar product from alternative companies that are competing within the same industry.

Now I am not going to go into detail why the 'flagship' motherboard that others and myself had purchased is underwhelming as this has been well documented.

It looks that you did not understand that 'we' as x370 titanium owners (maybe more so for myself as I have high expectations), having been let down (again well documented that what we purchased compared to the other manufacturer products that were available was/is lacking features that are expected to be included on a flagship motherboard) are fed up of being continually disrespected by the lack of communication coming from MSI.

Do you think that anyone enjoys wasting their time (that is finite), typing detailed emails explaining in excruciating details to support staff an issue they are having only to receive a copy and paste response ??

This is what MSI do!

There is NO active participation from anybody within the company who has any real impact in offering us users any support that is worth two cents.

All we get are messages that one would tell their 5 year old son,

'it will be ready when it is ready'

'dont post here no one is listening'

'email support (like saying go to you Mum) we cant help you here'

This is not play school, we expect a professional company to have ETAs, we expect when we ask for some form of ETA to receive a relative answer!

You know why they dont give ETAs? Its to keep us in limbo so we wait and dont move to a competitor product, its a form of blackmail

This is the gripe.

Now as I said, your points are all valid, its just that MSI are far far behind the competition in releasing its BIOS updates and because they are taking so long the silence coming from the company is deafening.

Its now been almost two months since we received the first and only BETA BIOS and when we ask whats happening we are treated as children.

How demeaning do you think that is ??

And just for the record, I am a 44 year old male who has been working in the IT industry since 1999, I fully understand the complexities in all that is involved and I fully understand that there are many factors can effect the time scale in releasing stable BIOS for these motherboards.

But that is NO EXCUSE for treating people in the manner they do, its UNACCEPTABLE
Okay, I now understand what your issue is and to be honest, I'd be lying if I said I disagreed.

One issue that I feel MSI does need to really work on is communication with its customers/users.  I totally agree.  It won't cost them anything (figuratively speaking), to let people know, and it would be trivial for them to have actual staff members (who know what is happening with BIOS releases and such) to keep people updated via the Forums and Reddit - I totally agree with that sentiment.

I have even contacted MSI regarding this, explaining how such a small effort will really break down the PR problems that they seem to be having.  I wait for them to take heed.

I apologise if my earlier post came across coarse or condescending, that was not my intent at all, it's just being someone who frequents the MSI forums - and being an MSI customer/user for close to 25 years - pretty much since the start, and the fact that - touch wood - I've not had any significant issues with their products - be they consumer-grade or server-grade - across both the AMD and Intel line ups, frequents Reddit and elsewhere, and seeing that so many people experienced issues with their MSI B450 motherboards - especially with regard to the BIOS change (to the GSE-Lite edition), as well as issues with BIOS Flashback and such, I even went out of my way to purchase an MSI B450 Tomahawk and then upgraded it with the BIOS Flashback, and had no problems - as long as I followed the process properly.

But I do appreciate and indeed agree, that the process should have been clearly defined by MSI, on the various product pages, and not hidden away in Forum and Reddit threads.

So yes, I totally agree with you - MSI need to buck their game when it comes to communicating with customers, and while yes, I understand their BIOS releases might take some time, they need to keep in contact with customers and manage expectations. 

As I said, I've tried to reach out to MSI, and advise them that this small action on their part will go a long way, and am awaiting their response - or just them starting to communicate more effectively.

Once again, I apologise if my post came across negatively, it was on the back of seeing so many people having "problems" - only to really be user-errors, but user errors that could easily have been avoided had MSI been more organised in terms of their customer communications.

I also didn't realise that the MSI X370 Titanium didn't and hasn't had a BIOS update since July 1, 2019 - and that no ETA has been given - that I agree is completely unacceptable.  However, looking at the chronology of BIOS updates from MSI for that motherboard - https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/X370-XPOWER-GAMING-TITANIUM - they do seem to come through, and if I might be so bold as to ask, what are the actual problems with the 7A31v1MM(Beta version) BIOS for that motherboard that seems to currently be the most recent?  From the changelog it provides support for the Ryzen 3000 series, however, it does change the BIOS down to the GSE-Lite (on account of the available BIOS storage being 16MB instead of the 32MB - but this is a given, and a known issue).  I have to say from looking at the spec and documentation for the motherboard it does look like a beautiful board, with some really good features - so I'm curious as to what fails or doesn't work as expected with this Beta BIOS - the Beta BIOS I incorporates AMD AGESA 1.0.0.3(a/ab) I think due to its publication date.

Being on a MEG X570 ACE, I'm still running the AGESA 1.0.0.3ab BIOS - 7C35v13 - that was released on July 19, 2019.

Also, how was your support in terms of BIOS releases and such when the X370 Titanium initially released, because based on the BIOS download page (https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/X370-XPOWER-GAMING-TITANIUM) there were a number of BIOS releases at launch, I would guess to iron out issues and make improvements for use with the Ryzen 1000 series.

I also understand that some of the other board vendors such as ASUS, ASRock, Gigabyte (which I have to say have been really really efficient in their BIOS releases - but have very few boards comparatively to support, so that needs to be taken into consideration) have been far more efficient in their BIOS releases, however, from what I know, their communication has been about as lack-lustre as MSI's - with ASUS having a number of other issues with even some of their newer boards (such as VRM temperatures not being available and such) - so we need to be fair, that it's not just MSI that is being lax in their communications, the other brands also have their own problems, and their customers are also not entirely please.

I think the only exception to this is Gigabyte, which seems to really have its game in order, but not owning any Gigabyte equipment, I cannot say definitively, it might just be that Gigabyte customers are just more patient than others!

Anyways, following your post, I once more reached out to MSI - and have asked them once more to try to improve their communications if nothing else, so as to avoid bad feelings from customers who have trusted them.

As I said, I await their response, ideally by changing their communcations strategy to one that is more forthcoming.

Again, I apologise for any ill feeling my message may have caused, that was not my intention at all.

Have a wonderful day, and long weekend,

Peace <3
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mongoled

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>>How to contact MSI.<<
Really?

Was that necessary ?

I think Smog knows how to contact MSI and I am sure you know that too.

@shabbirh

I will follow up to your post when I have some spare time and for the record, you did not cause any ill feeling as your initial response was respectful and clearly you made time to write that response, so its to be respected.
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shabbirh

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Re: Why is AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB taking so long to rollout?
« Reply #27 on: 23-August-19, 10:22:34 »

Really?

Was that necessary ?

I think Smog knows how to contact MSI and I am sure you know that too.

@shabbirh

I will follow up to your post when I have some spare time and for the record, you did not cause any ill feeling as your initial response was respectful and clearly you made time to write that response, so its to be respected.

Regarding the >>Contact MSI<< thing that I've seen on a number of posts asking questions - the folk that make such posts - are they employees of MSI or just folk who remind me of the old Perl community who's mantra was when anyone asked a question "RTFM".  It's in my opinion, unhelpful and disrespectful, and really does nothing to improve MSI's PR situation.

I hope that they are just over-zealous posters and not employees of MSI or formally sanctioned folk.

Even if the answer requires direct contact to MSI - that's fair enough, there is a way to say it and be respectful and helpful also.  I get that maybe there are many people asking questions - that is what an FAQ section would be useful for - for Frequently Asked Questions - it is after all in the name!!

Just a link to a post about how to contact MSI is unhelpful and extremely condescending, and really harms MSI's overall reputation. 

I believe the people doing it are not MSI employees - if they are - then MSI has to really get a grip, as if the future is bad for MSI, then it is by its own doing, and not on account of shoddy product, but rather by appalling PR and customer service.

Secondly, I'm glad I didn't cause ill-feeling, I asked because recently in other forums when I've said things as I have, some folk got all upset and said I was being rude and whatnot, I was sure I wasn't - it's not in my nature to be rude, I don't like people being rude with so I refuse to be rude with anyone.  As you rightly said, everyone has a right to their opinion, and if we want to discuss and inform each other the only way is through mutual respect and dignity.

I thank you for your kind words, and I look forward to reading your response.

Have a wonderful day and long weekend :)

Peace <3
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buddyw53

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Regarding the >>Contact MSI<< thing that I've seen on a number of posts asking questions - ...
Many, if not most, people don't seem get that this board is not run by MSI and is probably rarely frequented by anybody who is MSI.  So a question that might deserve a response by someone in MSI is best answered by... MSI.
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shabbirh

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Re: Why is AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB taking so long to rollout?
« Reply #29 on: 23-August-19, 11:35:19 »

Many, if not most, people don't seem get that this board is not run by MSI and is probably rarely frequented by anybody who is MSI.  So a question that might deserve a response by someone in MSI is best answered by... MSI.
I think therein lies an underlying PR/communications issue that MSI needs to swiftly get a grip of.

The fact that the Forums are directly (and pro-actively) linked to from the MSI website, and that they live on the msi.com domain, and appear to be fully official, indicates that when someone has the title of "Global Moderator" or "Moderator", then many people I think - wrong though it may be - assume that the response is an MSI response.

Therefore, when they see such posts, where the response is simply a ">>> How to contact MSI <<< - this - given it has been done by someone who has the title of "Moderator" or "Global Moderator" (or some other official-sounding title) - titles like Sargent, or Colonel and such - these can be understood given the "military-esque" theme of the MSI Forums lingua-franca - but the idea of a "Global Moderator" or "Moderator" gives an idea of someone directly affiliated with MSI).

As a result, the response of people who have such titles needs to be much more balanced and less "RTFM" style.  It needs to understand that the person asking the question - whatever or how "stupid" (though there is no real stupid question, except the one that is not asked, but I'm discussing the perception that some may have sadly, hence my use of the term) the question may be, or however impossible it might be for any forum member to answer the question, and that it requires genuinely an answer from MSI as a company.  To simply say ">>> How to Contact MSI <<<" with a link to yet another forum post is simply in my opinion totally unacceptable.

While I'm not disputing that it might be the best course of action, simply pushing a questioner off with such a response is, for want of a better word, rude.  It gives the questioner the impression that MSI doesn't care about them, as in once they've taken their money, following on from that MSI doesn't care and that support is not important.  I understand that is not what is meant by the good folk who have from time to time responded with ">>> How to Contact MSI <<<" - I understand that they are trying to provide the best way of resolving the questioner's question; but there are ways to speak to people.

We need to understand that not everyone who comes to these forums is necessarily tech-savvy.  Many will be people who have purchased an MSI product and are having some difficulty with it.  Yes, they might find the answer in a manual, or somewhere else, but they are asking here.  Surely such people deserve to be spoken to respectfully, to have people try to understand their problem and empathise with them and help to find a solution.

Granted, at times some of the questioners might well be quite uncouth in their manner of asking a question such as:

"I have an MSI such and such product, and it's not working after the <something> update, and so I think MSI is rubbish and no-one should ever buy MSI ever again in the entire history of the universe.  I saw a video where such and such reviewer was saying MSI products are <some description> and that products by <insert another brand here> are much better, so go buy them"

Granted, the question as asked above is not asked politely or reasonably, but it indicates a number of key points.  The asker has two possible reasons for asking their question as they have:

1/ They are either simply vindictive and evil people (highly unlikely)
2/ They've had some problem with their MSI product (for whatever reason that has yet to be ascertained), and they've searched around and found that some reviewer/site/video/some_internet_thing has decided that MSI is no good for some reason, and as a result, this person has begun to regret their purchase, and are angry, as previously they may have thought, "Maybe I did something wrong" and hence started searching around for a solution, following the viewing of such a video/article/etc they now feel that MSI has broken and poor quality products.

Therefore, they are kicking themselves for having chosen MSI.

When they come on the Forum, if they are then treated in a condescending manner, and fobbed off to another post, without anyone actually taking a real interest in their problem and trying to find a solution, that will further re-enforce that assumption and so the circle is completed.

This is a problem.  I have seen bigger companies than MSI go under because of such situations and such terrible PR/customer support.

This is the core underlying problem.  If MSI can resolve their customer support issue, and have some real people from MSI who are the Global Moderators and Moderators, who have a code of practice where they cannot just fob a user off that would go a long way to making this forum as well as the MSI Subreddit a much more pleasant place.

My main reason for even being on this forum, is to try to do that, to help MSI resolve their customer service issue - but I'm not an MSI employee not am I paid by them at all - I do this because as I've said my experience with the products that MSI has created has been absolutely wonderful - and that's from the early 1990s like I've said in an earlier post.

So, I ask my respected Moderators and Global Moderators, try a little empathy, my friends, be kinder and if required be a touch wordier - I know it takes longer - but the results of being kind are amazing.

A person who has a genuine problem with a defective product, if treated kindly will be happy to accept a valid solution that will resolve their issue and will continue and remain your customer, however, conversely a person with a perfectly working product, but who feels something is wrong, if treated disrespectfully and fobbed off to "contact MSI links" and such, without anyone - esp Moderators and Global Moderators - taking an interest and trying to educate them, well this, this will turn a person away from MSI and into the open arms of another vendor.

Even though it is well known by those who have a wider level of experience as I'm sure the Moderators and Global Moderators do that all vendors - bar none - have from time to time defective products, be it hardware or software - it's how the public perception of that defect is handled as well as how the effected customers are treated that will make or break a company, at least in the medium to long term.

Anyways, I hope my respected Moderators and Global Moderators don't mind my words, I'm just trying to help is all.

Have a wonderful weekend all,

Peace <3
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darkhawk

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Re: Why is AGESA 1.0.0.3ABB taking so long to rollout?
« Reply #30 on: 23-August-19, 22:39:42 »

First and foremost. Go read : >>Please read and comply with the Forum Rules.<<

Seriously. I see anymore of this continuing, and I'll just stop it. You've all been warned. There's rules for a reason. Like it (or them) or not.

That also explains that this forum is not moderated directly by MSI. They do not comment directly, but do on occasion send us information directly involving some problems/concerns.

We do not get timelines actively. In some very rare occasions, they will provide them, but it is rare (after my 5+ years moderating).

Is it rude to suggest to contact MSI directly? NO. Get over yourselves. That will generally provide the quickest response, like it or not. If you'd prefer waiting much longer (2+ weeks) then by all means, we can do that too. We do that because we don't have the information needed to provide an answer, or we know it'll take much longer to get an answer directly from MSI through us rather than going right to MSI. And this response is much different than "RTFM". Why? Because the manual is there. Here, there is no manual to just get the answer. We don't have it, nor will you find it 'in the manual'. It's ignorant to think those situations are the exact same things, and shows how far removed from 'providing customer service' you are, and only shows your complete and utter lack of understanding of how things work. 

Do the moderators wish things were different? Of course. We try constantly to improve things, but it isn't just that easy or simple, like you make it out to be.

At the end of the day, this is how MSI wants to handle things. If you don't like it, then I seriously suggest talking to MSI about it, because continuing it here won't be tolerated (see rules above). See : >>How to contact MSI.<<
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