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Author Topic: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390  (Read 2259 times)

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morbid74Topic starter

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Hello,

I'm running on 5ghz at 1.32v and pc keeps crashing and failing small ffts on prime95 non-avx version 26.6 as well as well almost instantaneous crashes on realbench stress tests. I have llc set at mode 3 (I've also tried mode 4), avx offset at auto, with other settings set to same values as msi video guide on youtube.

I've also tried increasing voltages up 1.33v with no success either. System doesn't boot into windows at 1.34v.

Here are my parts:
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Hcp4XP

I've been trying to get a stable system at 5ghz for almost 2 days and its getting frustating. Appreciate your help.

Thank you

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Chike

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #1 on: 18-August-19, 06:09:29 »

What is BIOS version?
Please follow >>Posting Guide<<
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Nichrome

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #2 on: 18-August-19, 06:26:13 »

Hi

Personally my i9 9900K requires 1.375V to be stable at 5.0GHz (with XMP enabled, it takes 1.4V).
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morbid74Topic starter

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #3 on: 18-August-19, 06:36:29 »

Hi

Personally my i9 9900K requires 1.375V to be stable at 5.0GHz (with XMP enabled, it takes 1.4V).

My system crashed once at 1.34v, so I believe i cant go beyond 1.34v. and wouldn't that require insane amount of cooling at 1.375v? I do have a 360mm radiator with push/pull config with 9 fans in total but I'm not sure if its enough given that my system just crashes at 1.34v and that I'm reaching 90-95 degrees on 1.32v when running prime95.

Any suggestions?
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morbid74Topic starter

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #4 on: 18-August-19, 06:37:40 »

What is BIOS version?
Please follow >>Posting Guide<<

Sorry, I'll make sure i follow that next time. I'm at work so I just came here quickly to post.

Bios is latest version, 7B12v15.

Psu at 12 rails is 83.3 amps and 1k watts.

Thank you
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Chike

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #5 on: 18-August-19, 07:04:02 »

Did it pas the Prime95 small-FFT with default settings?
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Nichrome

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #6 on: 18-August-19, 07:17:11 »

My system crashed once at 1.34v, so I believe i cant go beyond 1.34v. and wouldn't that require insane amount of cooling at 1.375v? I do have a 360mm radiator with push/pull config with 9 fans in total but I'm not sure if its enough given that my system just crashes at 1.34v and that I'm reaching 90-95 degrees on 1.32v when running prime95.

Any suggestions?
Well my 9900K is cooled by 360mm radiator with 6 fans on it in push-pull. About 80C when at 1.4v.. Custom loop though.
I would only guess that your cooler must be an AIO.

Other than that, in your case it might be indeed cooler being insufficient and system crashes once it reaches 100C when POSTing / booting up.
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morbid74Topic starter

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #7 on: 18-August-19, 07:20:03 »

Did it pas the Prime95 small-FFT with default settings?

Sadly, no; crashes after about 20 mins or so at degrees of 90-95.
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morbid74Topic starter

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #8 on: 18-August-19, 07:23:07 »

Well my 9900K is cooled by 360mm radiator with 6 fans on it in push-pull. About 80C when at 1.4v.. Custom loop though.
I would only guess that your cooler must be an AIO.

Other than that, in your case it might be indeed cooler being insufficient and system crashes once it reaches 100C when POSTing / booting up.

So 1.4v is unattainable with a 360mm push/pull with 6 ml 120 fans, and 3 140 ml case fans?

Doesn't sound right? I guess I'm doing something wrong.
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Nichrome

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #9 on: 18-August-19, 07:34:06 »

Sadly, no; crashes after about 20 mins or so at degrees of 90-95.
I would suggest you reinstall your CPU cooler. It doesn't sound right to crash with AIO H2O cooler that has 360mm radiator!
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Chike

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #10 on: 18-August-19, 07:44:48 »

Sadly, no; crashes after about 20 mins or so at degrees of 90-95.
No pint overclocking then is it? Not before you had a stable system at default CPU setting at least.
Voltage may have got too high, do you monitor it while testing?
What is CPU frequency with load on all cores at default settings?
BTW by default i mean load optimized defaults, also resetting BIOS beforehand won't do not harm either.
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Chike

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #11 on: 18-August-19, 07:49:17 »

I would suggest you reinstall your CPU cooler. It doesn't sound right to crash with AIO H2O cooler that has 360mm radiator!
I watched a video with the same CPU and cooler, even same voltage, temps get to 100c even under stress (which they did not specify what it was).
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morbid74Topic starter

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #12 on: 18-August-19, 07:56:59 »

No pint overclocking then is it? Not before you had a stable system at default CPU setting at least.
Voltage may have got too high, do you monitor it while testing?
What is CPU frequency with load on all cores at default settings?
BTW by default i mean load optimized defaults, also resetting BIOS beforehand won't do not harm either.

Oh I thought you meant default settings of prime95. No I didn't run prime95 on my cpu when its not overclocked; I didn't see the point in that before, but I guess it's time I give that a try.
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morbid74Topic starter

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #13 on: 18-August-19, 07:58:55 »

I would suggest you reinstall your CPU cooler. It doesn't sound right to crash with AIO H2O cooler that has 360mm radiator!

Well my thermal paste should arrive in a couple of days, so I'll have to reinstall the Aio in a sense. I'm running on stock thermal paste that came with my aio.
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Nichrome

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #14 on: 18-August-19, 08:08:26 »

What AIO cooler is it anyway?
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Chike

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #15 on: 18-August-19, 08:10:30 »

Quote from: Nichrome
What AIO cooler is it anyway?
@morbid74
This is why you need all your hardware in your signature.
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morbid74Topic starter

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #16 on: 18-August-19, 08:26:21 »

What AIO cooler is it anyway?

Corsair h150i pro.
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morbid74Topic starter

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #17 on: 18-August-19, 08:27:04 »

@morbid74
This is why you need all your hardware in your signature.

Of course. I'll get on once I'm on my pc.
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Nichrome

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #18 on: 18-August-19, 08:28:38 »

Corsair h150i pro.
Is Corsair still using thumb screws for mounting? If yes, give them extra 1/2 turn with screwdriver. I had h80i as my first watercooler, and was getting 90C on non overclockable i5 ;D
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morbid74Topic starter

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #19 on: 18-August-19, 08:29:06 »

No pint overclocking then is it? Not before you had a stable system at default CPU setting at least.
Voltage may have got too high, do you monitor it while testing?
What is CPU frequency with load on all cores at default settings?
BTW by default i mean load optimized defaults, also resetting BIOS beforehand won't do not harm either.

Cpu frequency on all cores was at a 5032-5020 mhz on all cores as prime95 was running before crashing.
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morbid74Topic starter

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #20 on: 18-August-19, 08:30:56 »

Is Corsair still using thumb screws for mounting? If yes, give them extra 1/2 turn with screwdriver. I had h80i as my first watercooler, and was getting 90C on non overclockable i5 ;D

No, they're not thumb screws. However, i did notice there is a slight tilt on the pump head. Maybe that has some effect?
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Chike

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #21 on: 18-August-19, 08:41:13 »

Cpu frequency on all cores was at a 5032-5020 mhz on all cores as prime95 was running before crashing.
And that is with optimized defaults?
That should be reported to MSI if the board cannot provide a stable system at default settings.
What voltage was applied then?

That is not the "normal" behavior https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/core_i9/i9-9900k#Frequencies
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morbid74Topic starter

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #22 on: 18-August-19, 08:59:50 »

And that is with optimized defaults?
That should be reported to MSI if the board cannot provide a stable system at default settings.
What voltage was applied then?

That is not the "normal" behavior https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/core_i9/i9-9900k#Frequencies

No, this is when overclocked at 5ghz. Is that not normal? Sorry for the confusion.
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Nichrome

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #23 on: 18-August-19, 09:29:32 »

Please load your BIOS to defaults (F9 is a shortcut if I recall correctly) and get stock frequencies tested first.
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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #24 on: 18-August-19, 09:30:42 »

It's not normal as per Intel's specs, on a non-Z motherboard it would not run all cores at max turbo frequency.
But I don't know if MSI implements it's all cores on max turbo frequency as it did with older boards.
Anyway first thing before overclocking is to test the system with optimized defaults.
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morbid74Topic starter

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #25 on: 18-August-19, 10:38:33 »

Please load your BIOS to defaults (F9 is a shortcut if I recall correctly) and get stock frequencies tested first.

Ok, will do. Should I have intel turbo boost on or off?
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morbid74Topic starter

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #26 on: 18-August-19, 10:39:43 »

It's not normal as per Intel's specs, on a non-Z motherboard it would not run all cores at max turbo frequency.
But I don't know if MSI implements it's all cores on max turbo frequency as it did with older boards.
Anyway first thing before overclocking is to test the system with optimized defaults.

My motherboard is Z-390 though. Or have I misunderstood you?
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Chike

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #27 on: 18-August-19, 11:50:16 »

My motherboard is Z-390 though. Or have I misunderstood you?
Yes I know it iz Z motherboard, I just wonder do MSI enable max turbo on all cores/threads for the i9-9900k
Only way to know is load optimized defaults and test.
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morbid74Topic starter

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #28 on: 18-August-19, 14:24:31 »

Yes I know it iz Z motherboard, I just wonder do MSI enable max turbo on all cores/threads for the i9-9900k
Only way to know is load optimized defaults and test.

I ran realbench for an hour at optimised defaults and it ran fine for an hour. However, running hwinfo gave me an instability so I had to close it. So I guess 5ghz is not achievable for me at this point? I've taken the voltage all the way up to 1.35v to no avail. Should I give up on 5ghz?

Edit: error is always kernel-power 41
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Chike

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #29 on: 18-August-19, 17:08:25 »

I ran realbench for an hour at optimised defaults and it ran fine for an hour. However, running hwinfo gave me an instability so I had to close it. So I guess 5ghz is not achievable for me at this point? I've taken the voltage all the way up to 1.35v to no avail. Should I give up on 5ghz?
I don't know realbench, we began with prime95 small_FFT no AVX, lets go with that.
I just want to know if this is stable, and what is core frequency, temps, and the voltage, both VID and vcore sensor.
You can disable (mark and delete) unneeded sensors in HWiNFO, and hide them (mark and :censored: +delete)

Quote
Edit: error is always kernel-power 41
Kernel power 41 error just indicates the system is rebooting without being shut down properly or stopped due to some error.
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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #30 on: 18-August-19, 20:08:19 »

Going to weigh in on this since I've got similar enough hardware....

Running an older Corsair H110i V2, and I can get 5.2 GHz stable if I want (I don't bother, I don't use the computer enough to care), even with Prime 95 (usually running 85C to 90C after 20 minutes, no crashes though). With 4 sticks of memory at 3200 MHz no problem.

Thermal paste generally won't make a huge difference. The difference between the best, and 'good', is about 5C under even the worst conditions.....

Sounds to me like there's other issues here. What? I can't be sure at this point. Are you sure that the cooler can even cool effectively?
Are you setting the cooler to max air flow when you test? Have you modified the default curves in the software for it? Corsair's software is not aggressive at all....even at 90C it wasn't at 100% most of the time. It should be at 100% at 70C at a minimum, and I'm not sure why they don't have that as the default. Probably to try and keep the noise lower. But then you get people that buy it, use it for some high end 120+W cpu that actually generates closer to 150W to 175W overclocked, and wonder why it won't cool well. 

If you haven't done anything in the corsair software to make the cooler perform properly.....well....start there. I ramp mine up at 60C to be at 100%. I don't care about how much noise it makes, I want it cooling. 
If you are concerned about the noise, don't overclock. You don't get both. 

This chip is hot. Period. 5 GHz is going to get hot no matter what cooler you use, when you stress it. Overall though, you either live with not overclocking, or turning up the cooling sooner than you think it should. 

Just some advice from someone who's been using this for almost a year now....
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morbid74Topic starter

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #31 on: 19-August-19, 07:32:15 »

So I managed to pass realbench for 2 hours after setting voltage, LLC and ring ratio to auto at 5ghz. However, prime 95 version 26.6 is having me stuck on 'worker starting' for each thread. No crashes no bsod - everything is working fine; it's just that workers are just showing as "starting". Should I just ignore prime95 and run realbench for 8 hours and try aida64 as well? Voltage is at about 1.348v to 1.362v, with temps at 85 to 101c as im running realbench and prime95.
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morbid74Topic starter

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #32 on: 19-August-19, 07:33:16 »

Going to weigh in on this since I've got similar enough hardware....

Running an older Corsair H110i V2, and I can get 5.2 GHz stable if I want (I don't bother, I don't use the computer enough to care), even with Prime 95 (usually running 85C to 90C after 20 minutes, no crashes though). With 4 sticks of memory at 3200 MHz no problem.

Thermal paste generally won't make a huge difference. The difference between the best, and 'good', is about 5C under even the worst conditions.....

Sounds to me like there's other issues here. What? I can't be sure at this point. Are you sure that the cooler can even cool effectively?
Are you setting the cooler to max air flow when you test? Have you modified the default curves in the software for it? Corsair's software is not aggressive at all....even at 90C it wasn't at 100% most of the time. It should be at 100% at 70C at a minimum, and I'm not sure why they don't have that as the default. Probably to try and keep the noise lower. But then you get people that buy it, use it for some high end 120+W cpu that actually generates closer to 150W to 175W overclocked, and wonder why it won't cool well.

If you haven't done anything in the corsair software to make the cooler perform properly.....well....start there. I ramp mine up at 60C to be at 100%. I don't care about how much noise it makes, I want it cooling.
If you are concerned about the noise, don't overclock. You don't get both.

This chip is hot. Period. 5 GHz is going to get hot no matter what cooler you use, when you stress it. Overall though, you either live with not overclocking, or turning up the cooling sooner than you think it should.

Just some advice from someone who's been using this for almost a year now....

Thank you so much for your detailed reply. However all my fans and pump head have been running on 100%, so I don't think cooling is the issue.
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Chike

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #33 on: 19-August-19, 08:09:08 »

(mark and :censored: +delete)
I must have neglated the "f" taht is shift+delete
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Krank

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #34 on: 19-August-19, 08:16:34 »

Hi @morbid74

What is the maximum liquid temperature of your H150i when running the stress tests?

Please post a full screen screenshot of HWiNFO: https://www.fosshub.com/HWiNFO.html

Latest Stable version of Prime95: ftp://mersenne.org/gimps/p95v298b5.win64.zip
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morbid74Topic starter

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #35 on: 19-August-19, 08:48:03 »

Hi @morbid74

What is the maximum liquid temperature of your H150i when running the stress tests?

Please post a full screen screenshot of HWiNFO: https://www.fosshub.com/HWiNFO.html

Latest Stable version of Prime95: ftp://mersenne.org/gimps/p95v298b5.win64.zip

What's weird is that when I run the latest version of prime95 with small ffts, workers do get stuck as well, but temps are much cooler at 75c max rather than 102c at version 26.6. I'll try to send you a photo of hwmonitor as hwinfo has crashed realbench twice for whatever reason, so I've decided to work with hwmonitor. Quick question though, which setting exactly tells me the temp of the liquid?

It is also definitely worth noting that when running optimised defaults non OC on prime 95, workers do also just stay there as 'starting'
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morbid74Topic starter

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #36 on: 19-August-19, 08:58:48 »

Hi @morbid74

What is the maximum liquid temperature of your H150i when running the stress tests?

Please post a full screen screenshot of HWiNFO: https://www.fosshub.com/HWiNFO.html

Latest Stable version of Prime95: ftp://mersenne.org/gimps/p95v298b5.win64.zip

Oh, I see it now. I was on my phone. I'll get back to you with a photo soon.
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Krank

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #37 on: 19-August-19, 09:07:39 »

I don't use HWMonitor :nooo: , HWiNFO :biggthumbsup: is the best and only monitoring tool I use.

Use the Custom test: 1344 min and max FFT's in-place with AVX disabled. While running Prime95 run CPU-Z in the foreground to monitor the Vdroop.
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Chike

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #38 on: 19-August-19, 09:22:01 »

run CPU-Z in the foreground to monitor the Vdroop.
Seriousely, does it show vdroop?
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Krank

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #39 on: 19-August-19, 09:56:15 »

With my 8700K CPU-Z shows Vdroop.
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Krank

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #40 on: 19-August-19, 10:07:28 »

@morbid74

I have attached a batch script that you place in the Prime95 folder. When you double click on it Prime95 will open, you can then start the custom test. The script will automatically refresh in the background to monitor for WHEA errors while Prime95 is running. The script will also automatically close Prime95 in the event WHEA errors are detected.
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morbid74Topic starter

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #41 on: 19-August-19, 11:09:20 »

[ ERROR: SPECIFIED ATTACHMENT MISSING ]
Quote from: Krank on Mon Aug 19 2019 11:07:28 GMT-0400 (Eastern Daylight Time)
@morbid74

I have attached a batch script that you place in the Prime95 folder. When you double click on it Prime95 will open, you can then start the custom test. The script will automatically refresh in the background to monitor for WHEA errors while Prime95 is running. The script will also automatically close Prime95 in the event WHEA errors are detected.
OK. I'll do that. Thank you.

So, as it turns out, workers are not stuck its just that im an idiot and that I just have to scroll down each worker's window. Problem is, I keep crashing at exactly 15 mins at small ffts, as well as dera8uer settings of 12k min/max. Exactly 15-16 mins in. And that is when approximately the first test ends (192k), and the second begins. This is so frustrating. I find a good OC setting for prime95 that doesnt work with realbench 2 days ago; now a setting that works with realbench but not prime95.

I've attached a photo of hwinfo64, ive just noticed that im running on 5,024 MHz, where others on youtube vids and such at exactly 5,000 mhz. Even though frequency in BIOS is 50. Maybe this is the issue?

Please help. I am so tired of this. :(

https://imgur.com/a/rq0Cp0o
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Krank

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #42 on: 19-August-19, 11:18:30 »

Is the HWiNFO screenshot with Prime95 running in non-AVX mode?

Your Vcore is 1.400V. The higher the voltage the more heat will be generated.

Set the AVX to -2 in the BIOS, then run Prime95 again.
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Chike

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #43 on: 19-August-19, 11:20:17 »

You used FMA3 on this test.
Maximize Prime95 window heightm and tile the windows, the supposed to scroll
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Krank

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #44 on: 19-August-19, 11:29:13 »

One of the radiator fans is running at a low RPM. Set it to the same fan curve as the other two fans.

Are you using Corsair Link or iCUE?
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morbid74Topic starter

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #45 on: 19-August-19, 11:51:22 »

Is the HWiNFO screenshot with Prime95 running in non-AVX mode?

Your Vcore is 1.400V. The higher the voltage the more heat will be generated.

Set the AVX to -2 in the BIOS, then run Prime95 again.

-Yes, non-avx

-i am running voltage on auto

-if i set avx to -2, realbench might crash but I'll set my focus back on prime95.

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morbid74Topic starter

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #46 on: 19-August-19, 11:51:53 »

You used FMA3 on this test.
Maximize Prime95 window heightm and tile the windows, the supposed to scroll

Ok will try that. Thanks.
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morbid74Topic starter

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #47 on: 19-August-19, 11:53:26 »

One of the radiator fans is running at a low RPM. Set it to the same fan curve as the other two fans.

Are you using Corsair Link or iCUE?

I have both, but I used icue to set all 3 fans and pump to extreme. Not sure why one of them running on lower rmp. I'll see what I can do.
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morbid74Topic starter

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #48 on: 19-August-19, 11:54:46 »

Is the HWiNFO screenshot with Prime95 running in non-AVX mode?

Your Vcore is 1.400V. The higher the voltage the more heat will be generated.

Set the AVX to -2 in the BIOS, then run Prime95 again.

So, is it normal that it's running on frequency of 5,024 mhz on all cores rather a rounded 5000 mhz? I find that weird personally, no?
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morbid74Topic starter

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Re: Can't achieve stability with i9 9900k on msi ace z390
« Reply #49 on: 19-August-19, 11:58:16 »

Is the HWiNFO screenshot with Prime95 running in non-AVX mode?

Your Vcore is 1.400V. The higher the voltage the more heat will be generated.

Set the AVX to -2 in the BIOS, then run Prime95 again.

Sorry, forgot to ask: I am running prime95 on non-avx where I am experiencing these crashes at exactly 15 mins in. Why would an offset in avx of -2 in bios matter here?
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