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Author Topic: Online Gaming Problem with nVidia GART Driver - MSI PLS READ  (Read 16741 times)

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methgsr

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MSI I am frankly shocked at your lack of service, and ignornace against your customer base with your current boards. I am talking about _YOUR_ problem that affects _ALL_ nForce 250GB Boards with the problems with online OPENGL gaming, and your lack of action regarding the problem. I will have no hesitation in emailing the large review sites on the net, regarding this problem, and your lack of action regarding the problem, and make the suggestion all online gamers should stay away from the MSI K8N Neo Platnium series of Motherboards.

The Problem: As pointed out previously, you have a problem with the nForce 250GB Chipset, in that with the _SUPPLIED_ driver on your install CD the nVidia GART Driver causes all OPENGL games to lock up for roughly 3 seconds at a time when playing online, when punkbuster does a check of the system. The system hardlocks for 3 seconds, framerates drop to 0fps, and ping to 999, which after 3 seconds returns to normal, but this happens to frequently to ignore.

Now if you uninstall the nVidia Gart driver, FPS drops dramtically, as you would expect as you lose the AGP speed and Fast Write modes, _BUT_ you no longer experience lockups when playing online OPENGL based games, which use the punkbuster anti-cheat program. This then rules out an inherrent punkbuster problem, as it doesnt happen when the GART Driver is installed, _BUT_ it does highlight the problem when running these games with the nVidia GART driver

You could argue this is a nvidia driver / chipset issue, which it is, but the fact is you have MARKETED this motherboard for gamers, yet online gamers can not use as it is meant to be used. You also supplied these drivers on your install cd, and you sell the motherboard, so the problem lays at your feet to fix and not nVidia's, It is your problem to take it up with them, and not the community which has purchased this board from you.

So basically in short. FIX THE NVIDIA AGP GART ISSUE which is affecting online OPENGL gaming with PUNKBUSTER immediately. This is not a small issue for a board that is marketted for gaming, and your lack of testing to picking this issue up is purely pathetic, that also applies for your lack of support, or responses regarding this issue.

I really dont expect _ANY_ response from anyone at MSI _AGAIN_ regarding this issue, as you seem to really not care about your customer base, but hey its worth a shot

Greg
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Dragula

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« Reply #1 on: 05-July-04, 06:46:53 »

Here Here well said lad


D.
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staffy

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« Reply #2 on: 05-July-04, 06:48:29 »

msi don't read this forum m8. its for peeps that use them.

as for saying its up to msi to fix, well thats just nutts when u say the issue is with Nvidia gart driver and pb. nvadia make the driver,so its up to them to fix not msi. how can msi fix sum thing that they don't make.

how can it be pb; for a start u said its opengl based games. if u go on a non pb server the problem is still there.   plus peeps on nvidia gfx cards don't get the same problem. and its not all ati cards that do either.

funny thing is! just done 48hr at a lan this week end. didn't get the problem. neither did 4 other peeps with the msi 250 mobo. all on ati cards. 9800pro/9800xt and 2 x800 pro's.

i aint a great fan of msi me self. but as abit don't do any nforce3 boards; i,ve had to look else were. what i'd like to know is ,r peeps with the gigabyte and ati cards having the same probs. if they r not then u can rule out nvidia chipset and drivers. but if they r then ati or nvidia is to blame. could it be the prob stems from nvidia gart and a ati smartgart mix tho, just idea? hhm might try uninstallin smartgart c what happens.
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methgsr

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« Reply #3 on: 05-July-04, 10:42:45 »

NO.

The responsibility lays directly at MSI's feet. It is there problem to take the problem up with nVidia as a company that is mass producing this product, it isnt a individual problem where it can be easily solved for one person, it is a wide spread problem that needs to have MSI jumping on nVidias back pressuring them for a fix.

Tell me this, if nVidia gets an email from me, saying I wont buy another nVidia product again, do you think they are gonna care the slightest bit?, but when MSI tell nVidia to go jump off a cliff, they will never buy chipsets again from them, after the severly dented their reputation with a problem on their chipsets, well hey I think i know what carries more weight

THIS IS MSI'S PROBLEM TO TAKE UP WITH NVIDIA AND SOLVE, not the consumers
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soldano

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« Reply #4 on: 05-July-04, 11:10:34 »

Quote
Originally posted by staffy
funny thing is! just done 48hr at a lan this week end. didn't get the problem. neither did 4 other peeps with the msi 250 mobo. all on ati cards. 9800pro/9800xt and 2 x800 pro's.

that's because according to what i read in another thread, this problem only happens online and not in a LAN environment.

i agree with methgsr and he should still email nvidia.

another interesting thing to note is that asus' nforce3 product STILL hasn't hit the market and that abit is skipping the nforce 3 250 w/ AGP support for 754 completely.  hrrrm i wonder why?
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Tiresmoke

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« Reply #5 on: 05-July-04, 11:13:43 »

Quote
Originally posted by methgsr
NO.
THIS IS MSI'S PROBLEM TO TAKE UP WITH NVIDIA AND SOLVE, not the consumers

And take it up with NVidia they will. I am quite sure they are already hard at work to solve this. I know how easy it is to get frustrated but try to have some patience. This is a new product and the fixes will come soon. It happens with almost every first generation of a new product and that is what we have to deal with sometimes being on the bleeding edge of technology. However as they get things fixed we will have a huge advantage over the other platforms so it is worth a bit of our patience.
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staffy

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« Reply #6 on: 05-July-04, 12:23:39 »

yes i realize getting on msi's back will get nvidia to get things sorted, but there again surely they are doing so.  y bother putting crap in here when msi don't look in the forum.
 
Quote
that's because according to what i read in another thread, this problem only happens online and not in a LAN environment.
yeah so it aint a pb problem then or u would get the same happening at lans; thats what i was getting at.

hmm abit new mobo should be great well i hope. nforce4 supporting 340/393 and 754 chips. what will be nice not having to upgrade the chips. bit of luck they'll put the northbridge in a differant place. get me water back on there then ;)
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roads

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« Reply #7 on: 05-July-04, 13:32:06 »
  • Best Answer

  • I also get this mini-freeze while playing Wolf ET. Reading around, im still not sure if this problem is exclusive to nForce boards or ATi cards or whatever, but i have a temporary solution to the problem that greatly reduces the frequency of the mini-freezes.

    Some people say that this problem is not Punkbuster related, but this works for me in Wolf ET so it might help some of you:

    In console type "\pb_sleep 500"

    This doesn't stop the freezes from occuring but they happen much less frequently now so ur game isn't effected as much.

    From the PB website:

    Quote
    PB_Sleep [Period]
    Holds the period of time (milliseconds) that PunkBuster "sleeps" between processing cycles; the default is 60; lower numbers will cause PunkBuster to process events more times each second which also has the effect of increasing the bandwidth used by PunkBuster; Players with a modem connection will probably want to set this as high as possible

    and also

    Quote
    My computer locks up or "chugs" sometimes while I'm playing with PunkBuster Enabled, what can cause this?

    Experiment with the pb_sleep setting ... try setting it to 20, 250, or 500 to see if that affects your game performance. A few players have reported that all the problems go away when they "tweak" this setting.
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    sui

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    « Reply #8 on: 05-July-04, 14:35:17 »

    surely this would be affecting all nforce3 250 / 250gb chipsets ?

    ie. there should be a lot of complaints etc, which nvidia should pickup and act on?
    also the drivers on the motherboard cd are older than the ones on the site right? is the problem still present with the updated ones?

    does this only affect opengl?
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    Maximu$

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    « Reply #9 on: 05-July-04, 14:37:15 »

    This dosent sound like a motherboard problem to me....but anyway...I play COD/Revolt and Battlefield 1942/Desert Combat....both with PB enabled and have never had a single problem...
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    Dragueur

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    « Reply #10 on: 05-July-04, 14:42:55 »

    Makes me a little nervous that other manufacturers have decided to completely forego 250GB boards due to "stability issues".  Newegg also has this board on the "no refunds" list.  Hmm.
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    methgsr

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    « Reply #11 on: 06-July-04, 02:53:30 »

    And take it up with NVidia they will. I am quite sure they are already hard at work to solve this. I know how easy it is to get frustrated but try to have some patience. This is a new product and the fixes will come soon. It happens with almost every first generation of a new product and that is what we have to deal with sometimes being on the bleeding edge of technology. However as they get things fixed we will have a huge advantage over the other platforms so it is worth a bit of our patience.

    Ok so why dont they atleast respond, admit there is a problem with the board, and tell the people emailing their support staff that they are aware of the current problem and are working on a fix to the issue.

    THEY ARE NOT EVEN RESPONDING TO THE EMAILS

    so how do i know they are working on it?
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    Trixxy

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    « Reply #12 on: 06-July-04, 03:48:21 »

    I have this problem aswell and it gets on my boobies.

    I tried playing RTCW earlier without the gart driver and never got any lockups, but of course there was a performance hit. Don't really know what I prefer, great fps with lockups, or poorer fps with no lockups.  :)  

    road: thanks for the pb sleep thing, I'll give it a try later.

    I heard that nvidia and punkbuster are looking into it, so let's hope they actually are.
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    Wonkanoby

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    « Reply #13 on: 06-July-04, 03:58:21 »
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  • https://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?threadid=53353&sid=

    there is a thread there that is being read by the nvidia people

    i suggest you add your details in there,in a sensible manner

    i have also given him links to other threads on this pb issue so im sure nvidia are aware of it

    fact of the matter is msi did not and do not write the drivers etc nvidia do
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    staffy

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    « Reply #14 on: 06-July-04, 07:12:09 »

    thing is tho, is it nvidia/pb or could it be ati. peeps with nvidia based cards don't seems to have the problem, or not what i,ve seen around any way.


    that pb sleep setting does help out cheers.
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    Shovon

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    « Reply #15 on: 06-July-04, 15:31:58 »

    Well now i know why those pesky freezes are happening.

    I own a 9800 PRO and I'm getting the freezes every 3 mins while playing Wolf ET.

    It looks like it is just affecting ATI cards.
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    Metaltronix1

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    « Reply #16 on: 07-July-04, 01:12:42 »

    I hope they fix it
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    rocketman2047

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    « Reply #17 on: 07-July-04, 03:42:41 »

    im getting those random pauses also but in lots of games.  and some open gl games are kinda jerky that shouldnt be fore me
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    Metaltronix1

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    « Reply #18 on: 07-July-04, 03:58:47 »

    I'm also getting the studdering problem with my GF ti4400 pny video card on this board.
    still hope they sort this problem out.
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    Thomas1234

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    « Reply #19 on: 07-July-04, 08:30:26 »

    I wanna let you know guys that I played Raven Shield with PB enabled withought any problem .. My Grafik is ATi Radeon 9600 PRO 128 mb

    Don't throw every problem on the MOBO , you have to ckeck your other Hardware and the Software you installed.

    Peace !
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    Freakaloin

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    « Reply #20 on: 07-July-04, 08:42:25 »
  • Best Answer

  • it's the motherboard...
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    BKtje

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    « Reply #21 on: 07-July-04, 09:12:59 »

    Also having no problems with the K8n neo plat and a 9700pro.
    Strange thing is that i ordered the mobo from the same place as dragula and about 2 weeks later. Could it be a problem with the mem controller on the cpu itself as that is one of the main differences between his system and mind (i got clawhammer, cg stepping while he has a newcastle)?  Also the gfx cards are different but this seems to happen to a lot of gfx cards.

    Tbh im just clutching at straws here :p
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    Eergassie

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    « Reply #22 on: 07-July-04, 09:24:33 »

    I have the same problems, on a non-pb server it works fine :S
    This really sucks, i bought a new pc to solve the lag not to get annoying hickups!

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    Thomas1234

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    « Reply #23 on: 07-July-04, 09:43:20 »

    Quote
    Originally posted by Freakaloin
    it's the motherboard...

    I told you it isn't the MOBO ... Why the PB works for me then ?
    See what are my Hardware :
    AMD64 3000+ (NewCastle)
    K8N Neo Platinum, Bios ver. 1.1
    512 DDR Kingston HyperX Ram , CL2 , PC3200 (PC400)
    Enermax 460 watt PSU
    MaxtorDiamond SATA HD with 8 mb Cache
    ATi Radeon 9600 PRO 128
    Creative Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS

    Check if your all Hardware and software are compatible . Mine don't have any problem .. With Online games and PB enabled NO PROBLEMS .
    There musst be other thing in your PC .
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    Freakaloin

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    « Reply #24 on: 07-July-04, 10:24:38 »
  • Best Answer

  • all that is in my box is the cpu, mobo, ram, vcard, hard drive and cdburner. Changed everything out cept cpu...nothing fixed it.

    it's the motherboard...
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    staffy

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    « Reply #25 on: 07-July-04, 13:11:09 »

    Quote
    all that is in my box is the cpu, mobo, ram, vcard, hard drive and cdburner. Changed everything out cept cpu...nothing fixed it.

    erm yeah but mem controller on the cpu might not be.

    starting to think it aint the mobo but the chip or just pb
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    Fro5tbit3

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    « Reply #26 on: 07-July-04, 13:56:34 »

    It's got nothing in the world to do with the motherboard or Msi, its a combition of the gart driver and punkbuster. So its upto Nivida to sort this problem

    The problems arises when punkbuster scans for any cheats that you may be running, altering the frequency of the scans  using the "\pb_sleep 500" command only slows it down and will not stop it

    You can fix it by removing the gart driver, do this by un-installing the Nviida drivers and re-installing them and DO NOT install the Gart driver, but this leads to lower frame rates, Failing this you can also play on none punkbuster servers, so it's up to you , have the problem, remove the gart driver and have lower frame rates or leave the gart driver installed and play on non punkbuster servers.

    I'm sure this will be fixed in later releases of the driver from Nvidia, but to flame Msi is maddness as it IS NOT there problem

    Yes i agree that the bios needs updating on this motherboard, but theese things progress with age, when we brought this motherboard we where buying very very new technology, so give it chance to mature  ;-))
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    EvilGOD

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    « Reply #27 on: 07-July-04, 15:01:10 »

    its just ati cards, no problem on nv cards, neither fx 5900 (albatron) nor gf4ti 4800se (msi) had that problem, just my radeon 9800pro, was fixed by using cat. 3.10 with 32mb agp aperture size... so i think its up to ati...
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    Freakaloin

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    « Reply #28 on: 07-July-04, 15:05:52 »
  • Best Answer

  • where do u add that "\pb_sleep 500" line?  in the console of the game?
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    Dragula

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    « Reply #29 on: 08-July-04, 03:24:15 »

    here's the skinny, i tested on a non PB server last nite, while BK was buzy OC'in his baby, now i could play fine online no PB, i go to our clan server which runs PB and im freezing away like im MR Freeze, the issue is deffo a combo between PB and the board i'd say, PB recently changed the way they scan ure machine 4 hacks, they scan the hardware also now so they can ban u by hardware ID if ure a h4x0r/cheating mofo, im wondering if this new scaning is causing the lag once it hits the board ???


    thoughs ???


    D.
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    Shovon

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    « Reply #30 on: 08-July-04, 06:43:43 »

    If I remove the GART driver, do you have any idea by how much it will reduce the frame rates.

    I'm currently capped at 76fps in Wolf ET and below is my spec:
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    Freakaloin

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    « Reply #31 on: 08-July-04, 08:05:27 »
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  • i tried out the pb_sleep 500 and that definitely works by reducing the frequency of the freeze. So can u keep the scan(and the freeze) from happening by randomly using the pb_sleep command while ur playing? just wondering...
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    staffy

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    « Reply #32 on: 08-July-04, 18:47:46 »

    i would of said no. pb has to scan. otherwise it will kick u off, thinkin ur a haxor.

    frostie 1 thing tho m8. the same aint haperning with fx cards. donno if they have gart driver. could it be nvidia gart and ati gart getting messed up when pb does its scan. seems logical if fx cards don't have there own gart.
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    Metaltronix1

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    « Reply #33 on: 09-July-04, 05:06:41 »

    Hello,  your right Frostbite can't blame MSI  , way I see it  theirs 2 involve with this board MSI, Nvidia,maybe three (ATI video card drivers), but the studdering was happening on my ti4400 video card also. Maybe the next revision of the board will have less issues.  :smile:
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    EvilGOD

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    « Reply #34 on: 09-July-04, 06:47:28 »

    you tried the latest original/official nvidia disp. driver? no problem with them, nforce 4.24 and any nvidia card...
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    Metaltronix1

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    « Reply #35 on: 09-July-04, 09:43:01 »

    Tried both latest drivers for chipset and video card ,still same problems. Thanks for your input :smile:
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    Freakaloin

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    « Reply #36 on: 10-July-04, 11:38:54 »
  • Best Answer

  • are there other gart drivers that can be used?
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    Xee

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    « Reply #37 on: 10-July-04, 17:51:10 »

    This problem is really beginning to irritate me :angryfire: This mobo should not be sold  as a gaming mobo, when it has punkbuster issues like it does at the momment. MSI, pb Nvidia, please fix this problem.... this is a major flaw :biggthumbsdown:

    Problem occurs with Quake 3, playing online, with servers that run pb. I get freezes for a couple of seconds every min or two. :-((
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    Xee

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    « Reply #38 on: 11-July-04, 06:24:35 »

    Quote
    Originally posted by methgsr
    THIS IS MSI'S PROBLEM TO TAKE UP WITH NVIDIA AND SOLVE, not the consumers

    I agree, MSI, Nvidia, and punkbuster, need to start talking to each other FAST! If this problem is not solved soon, it will be the last Nvidia/MSI product I ever buy. I hope MSI restore my faith in their products soon. I cant believe this problem did not get spotted during testing period, before this board was released.  ;-((
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    Xee

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    « Reply #39 on: 11-July-04, 07:09:42 »

    Also does anyone know if this problem is specific to ATI gfx cards with this mobo, or not?

    And has anyone here tried Directx 9.0c, does this have any effect on the problem?
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    Xee

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    « Reply #40 on: 11-July-04, 13:33:13 »

    Anyone? ???-)
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    Xee

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    « Reply #41 on: 12-July-04, 18:37:14 »

    Any updates on this problem yet?
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    crazy fred

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    « Reply #42 on: 12-July-04, 21:11:25 »

    I recently experienced very bad slowdown to 3fps while playing bf1942 dc mod. I had just installed a new bfg 6800gt when the problem started. My ati 9800xt never did this. I'm not blaming anyone.  I thought it may be a driver problem because I can esc. out of game and back in and everything is fine.  Hopefully this can get cleared up.
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    roads

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    « Reply #43 on: 13-July-04, 03:34:54 »
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  • Quote
    Originally posted by crazy fred
    I recently experienced very bad slowdown to 3fps while playing bf1942 dc mod. I had just installed a new bfg 6800gt when the problem started. My ati 9800xt never did this. I'm not blaming anyone.  I thought it may be a driver problem because I can esc. out of game and back in and everything is fine.  Hopefully this can get cleared up.

    I would highly recommend a clean install of windows when changing between ati and nVidia cards - especially if u think u may be having driver problems/conflicts.
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    Xee

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    « Reply #44 on: 13-July-04, 15:45:04 »

    Does the ATI Cats v3.9 solve this problem for now? Problem is that I cant really use 3.9's as I need the latest cat's for some other software. And changing back and forth is just not.... well thats just stupid. Argh!

    Does the latest Directx 9.0c make any difference has anyone tried them?
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    cowman

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    « Reply #45 on: 13-July-04, 16:39:55 »

    as far as I know this problem goes basically unoticed with the Cat 3.9's and 3.10's but anything higher it shows up...
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    Xee

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    « Reply #46 on: 14-July-04, 12:14:50 »

    Well using ATI CAT's v3.9 is very well but I need to use the latest CAT's as I use other software that requires them.  :angryfire: :angryfire: o_0
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    crazy fred

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    « Reply #47 on: 14-July-04, 19:14:55 »

    Found out what my problem was. Simple actually. I had been running fraps and had setup one of my keys for recording.  When hit it would caused my frames to drop to 3 and 4. Without fraps running it works fine.  I realize going from ati to nvidia is best with fresh install, but I was just trying the 6800gt and was not sure if I would keep it.  I have decided to keep it :biggthumbsup: and will soon do a clean install.
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