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Author Topic: Need some information, i'm returning from AMD  (Read 1286 times)

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Athlonix

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Need some information, i'm returning from AMD
« on: 03-November-02, 21:41:35 »

hi all,

I've been with AMD now for about 2 years, but since the prices have dropped, i wish to return to the true master...

i have a couple of questions needing answers

1) why can i not find a mobo with AGP x8 as AMD mobos do have it?

2) why can't I find one that supports DDR400?

3) not having DDr400 will this reduce the systems performance, or is the bandwidth from the CPU only big enough for DDR333?

4) is there much of a difference between AGP x4, and x8?

5) can get a board with these missing features?

thx

Athlonix
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Assaf

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« Reply #1 on: 03-November-02, 21:57:16 »

1.SiS 648 chipset based boards support AGPx8 on paper at least.

2.SiS 648 chipset based support DDR400 unofficially.

3.The bandwidth a P4 CPU can use at 400MHz FSB is 3.2GB/s and at 533MHz 4.2GB/s.

3.2GB/s is the bandwidth of:
DDR400
Dual channel DDR200
Dual channel RDRAM PC800
RIMM3200 (32bit RDRAM)

4.2GB/s is the bandwidth of:
DDR533 (theoretical only)
Dual channel DDR266
Dual channel RDRAM PC1066
RIMM4200 (32bit RDRAM)


If you are serios about a P4 you should wait a bit untill intel releases the new dual channel DDR chipset to get the full preformance out of the CPU without expensive RDRAM or DDR400.
Also I still feel that for an intel CPU an intel chipset is the best way (SiS isn't bad for it's price but still falls behind on preformance and reliability).


4.AGPx8 in itself is of no use right now but important if you would like to upgrade the graphics in the future.
(intel's dual channel DDR chipset supports AGPx8)


5.You can get the SiS648 now or wait for intel's new chipse codename "granite bay".


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Athlonix

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« Reply #2 on: 04-November-02, 00:15:39 »

thx for your reply,

at this time what would be my best option, Intel, as in motherboard, maker, model etc.

and is AMD and there motherboards going to be better in the long run, I have a window now, which i can sell my older equipment to a friend for an upgrade, which option would be best

MSI KT400 Ultra FISR + AMD Athlon XP 2400+ T'Bred

Or

[Pentium 4 Motherboard] + Intel Pentium 2.4Ghz 533FSB

I'm really interested in going back to Intel but I need and want the best performance, and possibly the best option for future upgrades


hope that makes sense  :P

Athlonix
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Assaf

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« Reply #3 on: 04-November-02, 01:05:42 »

I wouldn't consider either worthwhile considering your current system.
It is pretty much a waste of mony.

Are you sure you want this  ?(
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Athlonix

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« Reply #4 on: 04-November-02, 03:19:05 »

i'm pretty much getting back what I paid for it for It just seems sensible
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Assaf

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« Reply #5 on: 04-November-02, 03:38:36 »

Still you will need to pay for the upgrade which is not called for.


Since memory is expensive and RDRAM is more expensive than DDR at this point I would suggest the XP2400+, but the moment granite bay is out the P4 (*should*) outpreform the athlon since it will finally get the bandwidth it needs and it will be done with cheapo PC2100 DDR.


If you want the intel CPU the option of the 2.4/533 + i845PE chipset + DDR333 is also not a bad option at all.
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Athlonix

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« Reply #6 on: 04-November-02, 03:52:44 »

so all, in all

which is better

Kt400 Ultra-FISR + Athlon XP 2400+

or

i845PE Max2-FIR + Intel Pentium 4 2.4Ghz

another way to look at it is will a i845PE board with DDR333, outperform a Kt400 DDR333?

i'm really looking for which one is better the upgrade is gonna cost me about 20£, so I just want the best option, I'm just worried that the KT400 is better due to DDR 400 and AGP x8 support which the i845PE doesn't have, will it support this in a BIOS update or is it beyond the chipsets ability?
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Assaf

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« Reply #7 on: 04-November-02, 04:07:57 »

DDR400 and AGPx8 are chipset limitations, not bios limitations.

The Athlon has an FSB of 266MHz , the P4 FSB of 533MHz.
As a rule there is no use for the emory running above the FSB speed and memory running below the FSB will create a bottleneck.

So the XP2400 still has an effective memory bandwidth of 2100MB/s even with DDR400. There might be some 5% increase in preformance but no more.
The P4 has an effective memory bandwidth of 2700MB/S with this chipset/memory setup.

It is well known that an Athlon can in some instances outpreform a P4 even with it's lower FSB and clock speed so as you have probobly heared many times MHz isn't a good measure.



So ultimately it depends what you do with the computer:
-Gaming: doesn't matter as the VGA card and memory are more important
-Integer/SSE2/video editing or 3D modeling:  P4 due to stronger integer units.
-FPU/video compression/3D rendering: AMD due to more FPU units.


On the upgradabilty side:
The i845PE supports hyperthreading meaning it will support all Northwood P4's and reportedly even the Prescott.

The KT400 will support it seems all AMD socketA CPUs including Bartoon with it's 512K cache and 333MHz FSB.


tough call...
I guess the AGPx8 tips it in favore of the KT400.



My opinions:
1.If you want intel wait for the Granite bay.
2.If you want AMD wait for nFORCE2.

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Athlonix

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« Reply #8 on: 04-November-02, 05:12:27 »

thx for all your help, I guess its gonna be tough either way, does the Pentium have better overclocking? i.e safer and faster? sorry if i'm driving you nuts but I'd really like to know whats what, even if its only for future reference thx

assaf
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Assaf

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« Reply #9 on: 04-November-02, 05:47:09 »

It depends on steppings, P4 C1 stepping iststarting to show up but you will need to sheck what you get befor you buy it.

The AMD T-Bred-A is a resonable overclocker, but nothing very impressive unless you have som extream cooling.


Overclocking isn't really my game so you should get some better advice on this issue.
I can only assure you the P4 is a safer overclocker since it's pretty much impossible to burn it.
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Athlonix

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« Reply #10 on: 04-November-02, 05:58:48 »

Thx Assaf, after reading a 100 reviews of the 533FSB 2.4Ghz Pentium 4 on a i845 chipset with DDR 2100 I saw the difference, I mean AMD is kickin' ass since a 2200+ keeps up with it in 3dmark2001se, but in all other tests it was far behind (500 or more points), plus if the CPU is overclockable I will be able to make my money go further via that approach(3.0ghz depending on HSF)

anything i should look out for in pentiums which i may overlook?
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Assaf

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« Reply #11 on: 04-November-02, 16:28:34 »

The 845PE+PC2700  will give a good boost over the PC2100 combo since the P4's FSB is capable of using the extra bandwidth as opposed to the 266MHz FSB of the current Athlons.


Just remember you can't unlock a P4!
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Athlonix

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« Reply #12 on: 04-November-02, 17:38:43 »

no matter, unlocking CPU's is beyond me, i haven't the money to sod CPU's up (AMD)
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Assaf

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« Reply #13 on: 04-November-02, 20:26:30 »

Just for the record I got the codename of the chipset wrong, Granite bay is the workstation dual channel DDR chipset, Springdale is the PC variant of it.
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Mr.Blue

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« Reply #14 on: 06-November-02, 01:20:55 »

Excuse me for being a butinski...

Why do you think Intel has lowered the price? It's not because they are good people and want their customers to get a good deal... It's because of AMD's ability to build a good unit at a fair price. I'm not trying to bad mouth Intel...they have a great processor but what if they lost their impedes to keep the price down?

Look out world...we would be scrounging for used processors because we couldn’t afford the latest and greatest!

My 2 cents,
Mr. B
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Athlonix

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« Reply #15 on: 06-November-02, 02:06:13 »

I understand what you  mean, but in the UK the 2.4 P4 is only 20£ more than the 2400+ and IMHO the Pentium is a better CPU :))
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Mr.Blue

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« Reply #16 on: 06-November-02, 10:23:01 »

By looking at your rig, it appears like you've already made your decision... :)

How do you like it so far?
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Athlonix

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« Reply #17 on: 06-November-02, 18:56:29 »

Well, it's arriving today or tomorrow :( i'll tell you how it is soon :D
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